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CreativeDominant -> RE: Obama 'misled Congress' over Bergdahl swap (12/12/2015 10:03:38 AM)
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ORIGINAL: joether
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Actually, Joether...you're lying again. As found in the OP...and highlighted, where appropriate, just for you:
A report created by.....WHO.....again? The REPUBLICAN PARTY? What would they have to gain (politically) by making the DEMOCRATS look bad just before an election in which they have lost on every front as far as 'decent argument' goes? If you recall a short while ago it was benghazi. How did that turn out for them?
This whole thing is politically motivated. The Republicans in Congress knew of the swap before it went down. They are simply lying to the American public (like they have always done to gain political points). Why do I know this? Because this stuff takes place in every administration going back to FDR! All this is, is the Republican Party fishing around for another 'Benghazi' like thing in which to attack the President and Mrs. Clinton. That you can not understand the subtle motivations shows their efforts are working well on an example of the 'Low Information Voter'....
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
The report claims that the detainees were informed of their release two days before Congress was notified.
Ok, and I have a report that shows the detaines got to see lawyers a few days their arrival at Guantanamo Bay. The problem with both reports? Written by Republicans whom are loose with facts and saturation of bullshit. They are lawyers, if you haven't figured that part out. They know they do not have to prove anything to people like you. You'll NEVER investigate the truth. Your just happy they are attacking the Democrats (i.e. Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton).
Prove those detainees knew of a SECRET MILITARY SWAP. Think about it. Which soldier would risk not just their military career by 'life in prison' for releasing top secret information? Which US Citizens who had security clearance would devolve such knowledge to the enemy? Doesn't that sound just a bit.....ODD.....of a situation?
What did they have to gain by telling the detainees exactly?
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Emails cited in the report illustrate the administration's concerns that leaks to the media could scuttle negotiations, and that the probability of leaks would increase if Congress was notified.
Its called 'past behavior'. That Republicans have a terrible time keeping secrets secret. Sooner or later, their secrets get out. How do we all know that some Republican doctored information used against Hillary Clinton in that 11 hour investigation on nationwide television? Some Republican, some where, fucked up. In addition, how much trust does the White House hold with Republicans? About the same as Republicans hold with the President. Trust is a two way street. Republicans seem the party that breaks it at every chance they get; or do you not remember how they backstabbed the Democrats on the ACA or the super committee back in 2011?
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
In an eight-page rebuttal, Democrats who sit on the committee rebuked the report's claims that the Pentagon had not taken enough precaution with the Qataris, but agreed that Congress should have been notified. They said the legality of the swap "remains unsettled".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35064027
Legality of the swap? Let's start with....HOW...they arrived in the first place.
They were taken from where-ever and charged with a crime. Yet they were not told what the crime was. They were told there was evidence against them, but were never allowed to see it. They were locked up in a prison without ever seeing a lawyer, a court room, or a judge. They were tortured relentlessly. They were held against their will for many years. Do you have.....ANY....idea how many violations of the US Constitution have taken place here?
Yes, believe it or not, but even 'enemy combatants' have the same rights as US Citizens, tourists, legal aliens, and even diplomats when it comes to law enforcement and justice. They have a 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th amendment rights. Where are all the REPUBLICAN investigations into this huge spat of violations of constitutional law (not to mention federal law)?
If the George W. Bush administration had followed the law, we would not have to be dealing with the swap in recent memory. Maybe we should go blame the people....REALLY....at fault?
Oh forgot, you can not support that politically.....
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Of course, you just conveniently skipped over the part about the Democrats saying "they should have been notified", didn't you?
I think the Democrats would like this whole matter swept under the carpet before Americans get clued in to just how fucked up of a situation this has become for both political parties. Before George W. Bush ordered the US Military to ship those 'enemy combatants', the United States still had the moral high ground on the law. We were seen to all other nations as the best and greatest nation on the planet. Then we had 50 million morons vote George W. Bush into office, and a conservative US Supreme Court major 'massage' the legal problems into the GOP's favor.
But let's dispense with reality and facts, right? Better to use those Republican 'facts', right?
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
The Obama administration has said that it didn’t need to comply with the 30-day period because the president was acting under his constitutional powers as commander-in-chief. (Hmmmm, I guess that 30 day period is just there...in case)
Privilege of Office. You do understand that the Executive Branch is....EQUAL....in power to the Legislative Branch, yes? That implies the President is not subservient to Congress, but as equal a partner in the power of the nation's federal system. To date, there are a pile of things the Republicans have done to annoy and anger the President. Your saying he is not allowed to do the same to them. If he can not do that, then I expect to see....PLENTY....of investigations by the Republican Party over the George W. Bush administration.
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
In their dissent, the Democrats noted the complexities of the legal issues surrounding the transfer and that many legal questions remain unsettled and without precedent.
Yes that was covered above in the whole 'How did They Get to Gitmo' piece.
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Hmm...not agreeing with the President. Does that make them 'DINO's'?
When Republicans said 'no' to war in Iraq; were they RINO's? No, because none of them took such an action. Were they yesmen? Maybe. But they were more than happy to send US Troops off to another country while giving hundreds of billions to US Corporations that all help them get elected. Who was the President of Halliburton before 2000? How much did that company receive for the war effort?
Again there is 'Truth' and 'Facts', and what the Republican Party states.
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
The lack of notification angered both Republican and Democratic lawmakers at the time.. Critics of the swap also argued that it went against U.S. policy not to negotiate with terrorists, and could incentivize more hostage-taking.
Yes the ones whom were not informed by briefings all launched out about it. Why were they not informed? Because the ones that knew of the swap were legally not allowed to speak up. Not even the President could talk about it openly before it took place.
What if the administration had a chance to save a US Soldier in captivity and did nothing because of the legality of it? You would have me believe the Republican Party.....WOULD NOT.....use in their political campaigns for the next few elections? They would not, use it to, to roost Democrats? Please, I not only want to hear the bullshit but the evidence they would not do this, from you, CD.
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
While Democrats on the committee agreed that the administration broke the law, they strongly objected in a dissenting report to the broader conclusions that the administration kept the swap secret for a political motive.
As noted above, the previous administration broke laws as well. Since Republicans did not hold that administration accountable, why should Democrats? Again, this is a trust issue. If Demcorats pushed to 'legally swat' the President, would Republicans do the same of a Republican President when they held the majority? Doubtful. Lack of trust across the isle.
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
There you have it , Joether...3 different reports wherein the Democrats say they were NOT notified. So you lied about notification.
I'll explain it....AGAIN....
Within the federal system, there are laws. There are Constitutional and Federal laws to be exact. When handling matters of a security clearance....HIGHER....than 'open for public consumption', there is a process. This process has to be followed or the offending individual(s) gets charged and most likely goes to prison (as is the case with Snowden). At the high levels of security the number of individuals that can see information begins to dwindle down to the President, Vice President, the President's Secretary of State, the Pentagon, and a number of individuals from both major political parties.
Why was it secret? To protect our troops whom were already in a dangerous situation from becoming ten times as violate. You seemingly forget that the enemy watches American news stations. Imagine if FOX 'news' got hold of this? Do you think they would keep quiet about it? Or run it for 24 hours?
This process has been true for each administration going back to the big decision on whether or not to drop THE BOMB on two Japaneses cities.
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Democrats say that the law was broken. Again, the lie put to your statement that it's only the Republicans who say the President did wrong.
Funny how not one Republican states George W. Bush broke laws in obtaining those 'enemy combatants' in the first place, eh?
Have you stated it was wrong? Of course not. Even though it is true, you will not admit it. Admitting it now, would mean your a hypocrite!
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Finally...not one word is mentioned of impeaching Obama over this, let alone whether he likes cake or pie. So, you're lying again or just stating your...wrong...opinion as fact.
Really? Are you REALLY that naive to the GOP/TP? They want to impeach the President on.....ANYTHING....
Just read their material. They have been wanting to impeach him on everything from running the economy to Benghazi. Before you bash someone else fore being informed, make sure you are just as informed. If you were informed (like me), you would never have made any of these arguments. Since you did, it simply tells me and others of how informed you are on all these matters.
Yes, this whole process is insane. Yes, laws have been broken. No, the guilty will not be charged in court. Republicans and their supporters are not going to hold those guilty from the George W. Bush administration nor Republican/Tea Party law makers, accountable and responsible with power; why should the Democrats and their supporters? Why should the Democrats and their supporters have to play by the rules, when the Republican/Tea Party and their supporters don't?
What have you done to hold your party acocuntable and responsible with power?
Absolutely Nothing
Spare us your bullshit! The current President has been cleaning up all the messes left over from the George W. Bush administration. This issue is one of thousands of those messes. Yes, its not pretty, nice, or in some cases, legal. But the toxic crap has to be cleaned up. If the George W. Bush administration had only followed the law, NONE OF THIS, would have taken place.
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
You always say you can provide facts to win arguments. Bring your facts...and their sources this time...to refute the above. And please take note Joether...I also took care to note what the Democrats dissented about.
I think I just did....
You can not admit your party is many times more guilty of the problems surrounding this issue than Democrats. Yes, Democrats have their faults. But its like comparing a 1 cm crack in a wall to a full on breach of Hoover Dam! Conservative media is trying to spin this as being of equal size for legal and constitutional problems if not bigger than the what the Republican Party did for actions. Funny how your completely silent on holding them accountable and responsible with power, eh?
No, dumb ass, you did not.
First, you want to go down that tired road of "well...they did it too", referring to an administration that's been gone for 8 years.
Second, you did not bring what was asked for. Sources to back up your bullshit arguments. Of course...given that you chose to bring a " they fit it too" wall of text, you'd have been sourcing from that point of view.
Third, the report cited in all of these is the DEMOCRAT'S dissenting report...the one in which THEY say they were not notified, the one in which THEY question the legalities.
Finally, you were asked to prove your lies...that parties were notified, that the Democrats said they were notified, etc. You did not...becausexyou CANNOT.
DO you really think you are that good that by throwing up a wall of YOUR statements only that take the argument where you want it to go rather than where it is, you somehow se me more competent? Trust me...and many others (including some of your "own" who RARELY back you)...you don't. Thanks for playing, though.
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