quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sorry my friend...anyone can make up an index and it is up to us to determine its validity... Personally I hold no faith in a word published by a Libertarian think tank.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You need to look up the Libertarian philosophy and all will become clear to you.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Viva la capitalism

quote:

Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place.

If one considers that Hong Kong is not a country but part of China and looks at the rest on this list one finds they are socialist not capitalist. The U.S. comes in a dismal 20th.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sorry my friend...anyone can make up an index and it is up to us to determine its validity... Personally I hold no faith in a word published by a Libertarian think tank.

Butch

The thing with the United States is that on paper it has a very good, democratic system.

In practice, money has limited access to politics. And, in that respect the United States isn't particularly democratic.

But, apart from that, I'm not sure why the United States would rank 20th in the world. Doesn't make sense to me.

You're not the only country in the world with a media that likes to play a certain tune, not by a long chalk.

I personally don't believe for a second that in terms of what is generally deemed to be 'freedom' the United States ranks behind 19 countries in the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Viva la capitalism

quote:

Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place.

If one considers that Hong Kong is not a country but part of China and looks at the rest on this list one finds they are socialist not capitalist. The U.S. comes in a dismal 20th.

many times posters have called Canada "socialist" (or worse, referring to it as "communist")..

Recently I have been watching a lot of Danish & Swedish tv shows/movies.. it is interesting in the difference in their culture and way of life than here..

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Viva la capitalism

The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place.

That's four English inspired cultures of the top 10. Americans, you should have stuck with us - you'd be as free as birds at this rate!

In all seriousness, not convinced with this study. Had a read and I'm still struggling to understand how and why they've arrived at these scores.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Viva la capitalism

quote:

Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place.

If one considers that Hong Kong is not a country but part of China and looks at the rest on this list one finds they are socialist not capitalist. The U.S. comes in a dismal 20th.

many times posters have called Canada "socialist" (or worse, referring to it as "communist")..

Recently I have been watching a lot of Danish & Swedish tv shows/movies.. it is interesting in the difference in their culture and way of life than here..

TJ, see, staying loyal to God's country has paid dividends as we all knew was the inevitable outcome! Class is permanent etc.

Secondly, Danish/Swedish/Norwegian films and drama. Can be good. Some of it in the mould of what English and United States programmes used to do very well before the advent of absolute shite like CSI.

In all fairness, the United States used to do some very good television, but it's just lost its way with all the hair and the rest of it. Having said that some of the Scandinavian programmes can be dog shite.

In terms of culture, there are some marked similarities between the Scandinavian countries and the United States as far as I can tell. It is obvious when you visit Scandinavia and the United States that some of the Scandinavian way of doing things has made its way to the United States.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Viva la capitalism

quote:

Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place.

If one considers that Hong Kong is not a country but part of China and looks at the rest on this list one finds they are socialist not capitalist. The U.S. comes in a dismal 20th.

many times posters have called Canada "socialist" (or worse, referring to it as "communist")..

Recently I have been watching a lot of Danish & Swedish tv shows/movies.. it is interesting in the difference in their culture and way of life than here..

TJ, see, staying loyal to God's country has paid dividends as we all knew was the inevitable outcome! Class is permanent etc.

Secondly, Danish/Swedish/Norwegian films and drama. Can be good. Some of it in the mould of what English and United States programmes used to do very well before the advent of absolute shite like CSI.

In all fairness, the United States used to do some very good television, but it's just lost its way with all the hair and the rest of it. Having said that some of the Scandinavian programmes can be dog shite.

In terms of culture, there are some marked similarities between the Scandinavian countries and the United States as far as I can tell. It is obvious when you visit Scandinavia and the United States that some of the Scandinavian way of doing things has made its way to the United States.

Actually, while I much prefer the Canadian way to the American way, I am not loyal to Canada at all.. I do love Vancouver but my biggest problem is that Canada is right next door to the US so US influence and pressure is always there (the mouse and elephant thing).. some of Canada's laws were pushed by the US.. but at least those laws are not direct copies, but still.. the US is out only for the US and whatever its pushing is cuz it benefits them and their American corps.. I am still looking for a country that gives me the least amount of US influence and the lifestyle & culture I want..

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the kicker here is conservatives/libertarians and liberals do not share the same definitions or understanding of "freedom", or we don't place it on the same level of values, so im going to guess the lefties see something like this and if they are not saying "so what?" then they are at least not saying "oh, we need to rethink what it is we are doing!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the kicker here is conservatives/libertarians and liberals do not share the same definitions or understanding of "freedom", or we don't place it on the same level of values, so im going to guess the lefties see something like this and if they are not saying "so what?" then they are at least not saying "oh, we need to rethink what it is we are doing!"

I don't think Freedom House is leftist. It's more of a moderate organization, with Eleanor Roosevelt and Wendell Wilkie among its founders. They base it on a scale of 1-7, rating it based on civil liberties and political freedoms. They also have a separate report on internet freedom.

I don't think it's so much a matter of conflicting definitions or values. Overall, I think conservatives and liberals in the US are still pretty much on the same page when it comes to basic freedoms, such as freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc. Where they seem to differ is more in emphasis and priority. One faction puts a greater emphasis on economic freedom, while putting civil liberties and political freedoms at a lower priority - even if they still support those rights in theory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The thing with the United States is that on paper it has a very good, democratic system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Viva la capitalism

The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place.

That's four English inspired cultures of the top 10. Americans, you should have stuck with us - you'd be as free as birds at this rate!

In all seriousness, not convinced with this study. Had a read and I'm still struggling to understand how and why they've arrived at these scores.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


The thing with the United States is that on paper it has a very good, democratic system.

In practice, money has limited access to politics. And, in that respect the United States isn't particularly democratic.

But, apart from that, I'm not sure why the United States would rank 20th in the world. Doesn't make sense to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The thing with the United States is that on paper it has a very good, democratic system.

One of our largest police departments,Los Angeles, was taken over by the justice department for behaving in a criminal manner. They were held in recievership for a couple of years while the government "retrained" the wayward fellows. I am sure you have read the threads on Furguson and other related incidents...perhaps this is what ranks us #20?
The president is not really elected...they are appointed by the electoral college which in turn is appointed by the state legislatures. Candidated for every office from dog catcher to president typically require a party affliation and support to actually get the job. Why would political parties be necessary in a true democracy?
On the up side we have exellent mirrors and the best smoke machines Hollywood can create.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sorry my friend...anyone can make up an index and it is up to us to determine its validity... Personally I hold no faith in a word published by a Libertarian think tank.

Butch

The thing with the United States is that on paper it has a very good, democratic system.

In practice, money has limited access to politics. And, in that respect the United States isn't particularly democratic.

But, apart from that, I'm not sure why the United States would rank 20th in the world. Doesn't make sense to me.

You're not the only country in the world with a media that likes to play a certain tune, not by a long chalk.

I personally don't believe for a second that in terms of what is generally deemed to be 'freedom' the United States ranks behind 19 countries in the world.

I believe it but then I live here so have been able to see just how little freedom there is here, imo the US is a Police State..I knew it was bad before I came here but it is so much worse than I thought.. its not just money limiting access to politics.. there are a lot of people in jail that shouldnt be, for minor "crimes", in some states with extremely long prison sentences... in a system that has for profit jails & sells for profit prison labor.. the cops & govt can seize your money and assets and not charge you with a crime.. 2/3rds of the population here live in the 100 mile border area where they can be stopped and asked for their "papers".. there is systemic reduction in freedoms in what kind of work/business you can be in.. the list goes on..

https://www.youtube.com/user/InstituteForJustice/videos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sorry my friend...anyone can make up an index and it is up to us to determine its validity... Personally I hold no faith in a word published by a Libertarian think tank.

Butch

The thing with the United States is that on paper it has a very good, democratic system.

In practice, money has limited access to politics. And, in that respect the United States isn't particularly democratic.

But, apart from that, I'm not sure why the United States would rank 20th in the world. Doesn't make sense to me.

You're not the only country in the world with a media that likes to play a certain tune, not by a long chalk.

I personally don't believe for a second that in terms of what is generally deemed to be 'freedom' the United States ranks behind 19 countries in the world.

I believe it but then I live here so have been able to see just how little freedom there is here, imo the US is a Police State..I knew it was bad before I came here but it is so much worse than I thought.. its not just money limiting access to politics.. there are a lot of people in jail that shouldnt be, for minor "crimes", in some states with extremely long prison sentences... in a system that has for profit jails & sells for profit prison labor.. the cops & govt can seize your money and assets and not charge you with a crime.. 2/3rds of the population here live in the 100 mile border area where they can be stopped and asked for their "papers".. there is systemic reduction in freedoms in what kind of work/business you can be in.. the list goes on..

https://www.youtube.com/user/InstituteForJustice/videos

How about this:

Penalty for Raising Frivolous Arguments

In three cases where the IRS had asserted either the failure to file penalty, failure to pay penalty, estimated tax penalty, or some combination, the courts also imposed the IRC § 6673 penalty for making frivolous arguments.

Among the frivolous argument cases is one where the taxpayer failed to file a return because he believed neither compensation nor dividends were taxable income.

The Tax Court held the taxpayer liable for the failure to file and failure to pay penalties, and imposed a $2,500 penalty under IRC § 6673.


Now if you make a mistake or dispute anything your argument or claim had better be 100% right or you get hammered despite they can fuck up by the numbers with an oops sorry.

Welcome to DUE PROCESS in america. Even slave owners treated their slaves more judicially than the judiciary treats americans when it comes to the irs!

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Viva la capitalism

quote:

Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place.

If one considers that Hong Kong is not a country but part of China and looks at the rest on this list one finds they are socialist not capitalist. The U.S. comes in a dismal 20th.

many times posters have called Canada "socialist" (or worse, referring to it as "communist")..

Recently I have been watching a lot of Danish & Swedish tv shows/movies.. it is interesting in the difference in their culture and way of life than here..

TJ, see, staying loyal to God's country has paid dividends as we all knew was the inevitable outcome! Class is permanent etc.

Secondly, Danish/Swedish/Norwegian films and drama. Can be good. Some of it in the mould of what English and United States programmes used to do very well before the advent of absolute shite like CSI.

In all fairness, the United States used to do some very good television, but it's just lost its way with all the hair and the rest of it. Having said that some of the Scandinavian programmes can be dog shite.

In terms of culture, there are some marked similarities between the Scandinavian countries and the United States as far as I can tell. It is obvious when you visit Scandinavia and the United States that some of the Scandinavian way of doing things has made its way to the United States.

Actually, while I much prefer the Canadian way to the American way, I am not loyal to Canada at all.. I do love Vancouver but my biggest problem is that Canada is right next door to the US so US influence and pressure is always there (the mouse and elephant thing).. some of Canada's laws were pushed by the US.. but at least those laws are not direct copies, but still.. the US is out only for the US and whatever its pushing is cuz it benefits them and their American corps.. I am still looking for a country that gives me the least amount of US influence and the lifestyle & culture I want..

There's a spot in North East England, TJ, nothing like the United States, nothing like the rest of England; very down to earth, straight down the line, out of this world un-touched coast-line, simple people no bollocks type of place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yHU5T8CJ50

quote:

While I haven't taken a look at the index in more detail, the broad headings listed above seem to have some serious omissions and biased weightings, which I suppose is to be expected as the Cato Institute a well known right wing institute appears to be one the prime movers behind the index.