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Real0ne -> RE: Madison on Freedom of Religion (7/5/2015 10:24:59 PM)
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ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
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ORIGINAL: BamaD
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ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
If the widget is art, created by the artist him/herself, then I have no right to force the artist to create my art.
However, if all I want is cake with some icing on it (no real art, just a basic service on top of the pre-made widget), I have the right to not have the store owner pass moral judgment on the event during which I am using my widget, and refuse to sell me the widget.
A wedding cake, however, is not "just a basic service."
From what I read, they were just asking for a cake with icing. And that THEY would further decorate the cake on their own. If I am misinformed, and they were asking the Kleins to use their creativity and artistry to design and develop a lesbian homosexual wedding cake, then I have to side with the Kleins on this.
It is my understanding that you are mistaken. BTW the Kleins didn't refuse to serve gays, they just refused to make a wedding cake. And the state pretended that they wouldn't serve gays because at the time gay marriage was not legal in Oregon. The people who vandalized their van, on the other hand, are bigots and did real harm.
If you are correct, then:
1) F*ck the state agency for dramatizing the facts (and for this RIDICULOUS fine!)
2) F*ck the Lesbian couple, for asking the Kleins to custom decorate a cake for them, that they didn't believe in doing. I am assuming the Kleins offered to sell the couple an iced cake, which the couple could further decorate as they saw Fit?
3) F*ck the Lesbian couple for not going to a Baker who supported their union. (Bad Karma) (Unless they were intentionally baiting the Kleins? If so, F*ck them for that too!)
Sorry, for the rant, but geeez!
If they really wanted a custom wedding cake to celebrate their union (if that was REALLY the point), why would they ask an anti-gay bakery to design it? That makes a mockery of their love and their union. I have to think, that their only motive was to bait the Kleins.
I am going to assume you are correct.
both make good points!
Not only that the gays lied in their testimony and the "ADMINSTRATIVE" so called court *cough* keeping in mind my love for admin courts ent on and on about how credible the gays testimony was.
Lets see a few facts of the case:
In January 2013, AK and MK were alternately caring for their infant twins at their home. At the time of the tasting, MK was at home and AK conducted the tasting. During the tasting, AK asked for the names of the bride and groom, and RBC told him there would be two brides and their names were “Rachel and Laurel.” [no need to do that unless the names were going to be put on the cake!] At that point, AK stated that he was sorry, but that Sweetcakes did not make wedding cakes for same-sex ceremonies because of AK’s and MK’s religious convictions.
--and surprise their business model even states they do men and women!
Welcome to Sweet Cakes! Are you looking for a wedding cake or for an occasion? Our cakes are custom made and designed to fit you.
We here at Sweet Cakes strongly believe that when a man and woman come together to be joined as one, it is truly one of the most special days of their lives, we feel truely honored when we are chosen to do the cake for your special day.
removed her email.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" John 3:16
http://www.sweetcakesweb.com/
Klien then quotes the 'bible' to quote the religious rule
During their subsequent conversation, CM told AK that she used to think like him, but her “truth had changed” as a result of having “two gay children.” AK quoted Leviticus 18:22 to CM, saying “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
from the bible:
Leviticus 18:22
Unlawful Sexual Relations
…21'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD. 22'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. 23'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.…
AK had told them that Sweetcakes did “not do same-sex weddings" and that AK had told CM that “your children are an abomination.” LBC was “flabbergasted” at AK’s statement about same-sex weddings. This upset her and made her very angry. (Testimony of RBC, LBC, CM)
Now thats credible alright!
After LBC’s DOJ complaint was publicized in the media, Complainants
both had negative confrontations from relatives who learned about their complaint against Respondents through the media. [Of course that is the Kliens fault and the court bought it]
In January 2013, LBC had just begun to re-establish a relationship with an aunt who had physically and emotionally abused her as a child and also owned all of the family property. Shortly after LBC’s complaint became public, the aunt insisted through social media that LBC drop the complaint. She also called LBC and told her she was not welcome on family property and she would shoot LBC “in the face” if LBC ever set foot on the family’s property in Ireland or the United States. [damn Kliens causing trouble in an otherwise model family] This threat devastated” LBC, as it meant she could not visit her mother or grandmother, both of whom lived on family property. RBC’s sister, who believed that homosexuals should not be allowed to get married, wrote a Facebook message to the Kleins to tell them that she supported them. This was a "crushing blow” to RBC, and it hurt her and made her very angry at her sister. (Testimony of LBC, RBC, CM; Ex. A16)
[sm=hissyfit.gif]
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