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Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 8:03:41 PM   
Owner59


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 Well placed shots......

"OUTRAGE: Sniper Shoots Down Confederate Flag At S.C. Statehouse"




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/outrage-sniper-shoots-dow_b_7624796.html


Notice that one of the "outraged", teaches a class called "the war of northern aggression" ....Which is code for I`m a prick.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 9:44:48 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Well placed shots......

"OUTRAGE: Sniper Shoots Down Confederate Flag At S.C. Statehouse"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/outrage-sniper-shoots-dow_b_7624796.html

Notice that one of the "outraged", teaches a class called "the war of northern aggression" ....Which is code for I`m a prick.

Notice also that the article is satire, which is code for you're an idiot.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/21/2015 9:51:27 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 10:23:48 PM   
Owner59


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Got me....

Was the part about the con-flag not flying at half staff, satire?

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 10:50:39 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Was the part about the con-flag not flying at half staff, satire?

From your link: In a crime that has outraged locals, a sniper has reportedly shot down the beloved Confederate flag that traditionally graces the Statehouse in Columbia, South Carolina.

The saltire battle flag does not fly at the Statehouse, where both the U.S. flag and South Carolina’s palmetto flag have been lowered to half-staff. The battle flag flies over the War Memorial and is not a state flag, so why would it be lowered?

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/21/2015 11:34:09 PM >

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 11:02:59 PM   
Owner59


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You have the most creative prevarications....

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/charleston-church-shooting/south-carolinas-confederate-flag-not-lowered-half-mast-after-church-n378316

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 11:06:21 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

You have the most creative prevarications...

You're making shit up again.

K.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 11:15:43 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

You have the most creative prevarications....

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/charleston-church-shooting/south-carolinas-confederate-flag-not-lowered-half-mast-after-church-n378316


You just referred to Christians as "Christo Fascists" in your OP of another thread

With that in mind, youll have to pardon me for doubting that you sincerely care about lowering flags in honor of those who you hold in such hateful, ugly contempt

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 11:19:54 PM   
Aylee


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The General Assembly has to authorize any change to that particular flag. It usually takes time to draft a bill and get it through both houses.

Secondly, I thought that flags were not important symbols. What changed about that?

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I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/21/2015 11:25:27 PM   
Owner59


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The other flags ,the Star Spangled Banner and the SC state flag flying at half mast.

Not the treasonous one .

Got it.

Most people get it.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 4:19:36 AM   
subrob1967


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I sincerely doubt you get ANYTHING.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 6:56:06 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The other flags ,the Star Spangled Banner and the SC state flag flying at half mast.

Not the treasonous one .

Got it.

Most people get it.

The 'treasonous' one is not a state flag.

It flies over a war memorial, not a government institution.

Sounds like the Perpetually Offended group was out looking for offensiveness again.

We got it.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 9:44:45 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The other flags ,the Star Spangled Banner and the SC state flag flying at half mast.

Not the treasonous one .

Got it.

Most people get it.

The 'treasonous' one is not a state flag.

It flies over a war memorial, not a government institution.

Sounds like the Perpetually Offended group was out looking for offensiveness again.

We got it.

Peon had the same question. He was, of course trying to make it sound as if the racism in the south was flippant about this killing. But, there was curiosity coming from Britain.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 9:46:18 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The other flags ,the Star Spangled Banner and the SC state flag flying at half mast.

Not the treasonous one .

Got it.

Most people get it.

The 'treasonous' one is not a state flag.

It flies over a war memorial, not a government institution.

Sounds like the Perpetually Offended group was out looking for offensiveness again.

We got it.

Was the succession by southern states defined as treason in any legal or moral sense? I don't recall ever seeing that discussed.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 1:16:41 PM   
Sanity


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FR

"Control this"

The hypocritical far left loons running the Associated Press think theyre pretty slick

Its good that we have conservative media these days, finally, to shine a spotlight on their antics

quote:

Guess the Political Party: AP Photo Lines Pistol Up with Senator, 2016 Candidate Ted Cruz’s Brain



Of course, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) is a Republican.


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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 1:35:04 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Depends on which side you come down on but here's an argument against secession being treason:

America was founded on a revolution against England, yet many Americans now believe the myth that secession was treasonable. The Declaration of Independence was, in fact, a declaration of secession. Its final paragraph declares inarguably the ultimate sovereignty of each state:

[T]hat these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved of all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do.

Following the Declaration of Independence, each colony established by law the legitimacy of its own sovereignty as a state. Each one drew up, voted upon, and then ratified its own state constitution, which declared and defined its sovereignty as a state. Realizing that they could not survive upon the world stage as thirteen individual sovereign nations, the states then joined together formally into a confederation of states, but only for the purposes of negotiating treaties, waging war, and regulating foreign commerce.

For those specific purposes the thirteen states adopted the Articles of Confederation in 1781, thus creating the United States of America. The Articles of Confederation spelled out clearly where the real power lay. Article II said, “Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.” The Article also prohibited the secession of any member state (“the union shall be perpetual,” Article XIII) unless all of the states agreed to dissolve the Articles.

Six years later, the Constitutional Convention was convened in Philadelphia, supposedly to overhaul the Articles. The delegates in Philadelphia decided to scrap the Articles and to propose to the states a different charter—the United States Constitution. Its purpose was to retain the sovereignty of the states but to delegate to the United States government a few more powers than the Articles had granted it. One major difference between the two charters was that the Constitution made no mention of “perpetual union,” and it did not contain any prohibition against the secession of states from the union. The point was raised in the convention: Should there be a “perpetual union” clause in the Constitution? The delegates voted it down, and the states were left free to secede under the Constitution, which remains the U. S. government charter today.

After the election of Thomas Jefferson, the Federalist Party in New England was so upset that for more than ten years they plotted to secede. The party actually held a secession convention in Hartford, Connecticut, in 1814. Although they ultimately decided not to leave the Union, nobody really questioned the fundamental right of secession. In fact, the leader of the whole movement, Massachusetts Senator Timothy Pickering, said that secession was the principle of the American Revolution. Even John Quincy Adams, who was a staunch unionist, said in an 1839 speech about secession that in “dissolving that which can no longer bind, we would have to leave the separated parts to be reunited by the law of political gravitation to the center.” Likewise, Alexander Hamilton said, “to coerce the states is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised.” These men, and many others, understood that there was a right of secession, and that the federal government would have no right to force anybody to remain in the Union.

Some people see the Confederates as traitors to their nation because many Confederate leaders swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States when joining the United States Army. However, at that time people were citizens of individual states that were members of the United States, so that when a state seceded, the citizens of that state were no longer affiliated with the national government. Remember, the Constitution did not create an all-powerful national democracy, but rather a confederation of sovereign states. The existence of the Electoral College, the Bill of Rights, and the United States Senate clearly shows this, and although it is frequently ignored, the 10th Amendment specifically states that the rights not given to the federal government are the rights of the states and of the people. But if states do not have the right to secede, they have no rights at all. Lincoln’s war destroyed the government of our founding fathers by the “might makes right” method, a method the Republicans used to quash Confederates and loyal Democrats alike.

After the war, Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederacy, was arrested and placed in prison prior to a trial. The trial was never held, because the chief justice of the Supreme Court, Mr. Salmon Portland Chase, informed President Andrew Johnson that if Davis were placed on trial for treason the United States would lose the case because nothing in the Constitution forbids secession. That is why no trial of Jefferson Davis was held, despite the fact that he wanted one.

So was secession treason? The answer is clearly No.

http://www.daveblackonline.com/was_secession_treason.htm

Another one:

...When the shooting part of the War of Northern Aggression was over and the Confederate States, which never officially surrendered, by the way, were in ruins, the benevolent Yankee/Marxist government took Jeff Davis, who, with his cabinet, had fled rather than surrender, and they tossed him into prison at Fortress Monroe in Virginia for two years, planning at the outset to bring him to trial for treason and secession, which they claimed were one in the same. After two years of prisoner abuse and political horseplay, the Union government finally decided, rather reluctantly, that it could not afford to bring Davis to trial because, should that event transpire, it might well be proven in court that Davis and the South had been right–secession was not at all illegal, nor was it unconstitutional. After all, what did they think the Declaration of Independence was other than a secession document?

https://revisedhistory.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/secession-wasnt-treason-it-still-isnt/

(in reply to HunterCA)
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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 1:58:27 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The other flags ,the Star Spangled Banner and the SC state flag flying at half mast.

Not the treasonous one .

Got it.

Most people get it.

The 'treasonous' one is not a state flag.

It flies over a war memorial, not a government institution.

Sounds like the Perpetually Offended group was out looking for offensiveness again.

We got it.

Peon had the same question. He was, of course trying to make it sound as if the racism in the south was flippant about this killing. But, there was curiosity coming from Britain.


You are, of course, wrong about how I was 'trying to make it sound', Hunter.

However: yes, I can say there is indeed quite some surprise about aspects of the culture there in SC this side of the pond. People are saying, for instance, 'What? They fly the Confederate flag?' and 'They have streets named after Confederate generals?' The general assumption is that such things would, surely, be too incendiary places where there's been so much bad blood in relatively recent history.



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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 2:09:29 PM   
MercTech


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And if you did into the memoirs of Andrew Johnson; you realize that one of the reasons he was impeached was that his government did not bring southern leaders to trial. Why did he not do so? Partially because he wanted to follow Lincoln's idea of reconciliation and partially because the Supreme Court Justices of the time informed him they would have to rule that the North's prosecution of the war was unconstitutional.

In the years of martial law with Army officers and their troops being the sole government; the Confederate Battle Flag came to be a symbol of a gallant but failed attempt to throw off the tyranny of a bought and paid for cronyism riddled Congress.

Don't assume that a cleaned up and rewritten by the victors high school history textbook gives that last word on what a symbol means to everyone.

The proper place for an official display of the Stars & Bars is on the memorials for the Confederate dead.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 2:22:17 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

And if you did into the memoirs of Andrew Johnson; you realize that one of the reasons he was impeached was that his government did not bring southern leaders to trial. Why did he not do so? Partially because he wanted to follow Lincoln's idea of reconciliation and partially because the Supreme Court Justices of the time informed him they would have to rule that the North's prosecution of the war was unconstitutional.

In the years of martial law with Army officers and their troops being the sole government; the Confederate Battle Flag came to be a symbol of a gallant but failed attempt to throw off the tyranny of a bought and paid for cronyism riddled Congress.

Don't assume that a cleaned up and rewritten by the victors high school history textbook gives that last word on what a symbol means to everyone.

The proper place for an official display of the Stars & Bars is on the memorials for the Confederate dead.

Exactly. Not over state or federal institutions...as I noted...not over such things as war memorials or ...as you noted...the Confederate dead.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 5:23:40 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The other flags ,the Star Spangled Banner and the SC state flag flying at half mast.

Not the treasonous one .

Got it.

Most people get it.

The 'treasonous' one is not a state flag.

It flies over a war memorial, not a government institution.

Sounds like the Perpetually Offended group was out looking for offensiveness again.

We got it.

Peon had the same question. He was, of course trying to make it sound as if the racism in the south was flippant about this killing. But, there was curiosity coming from Britain.


You are, of course, wrong about how I was 'trying to make it sound', Hunter.

However: yes, I can say there is indeed quite some surprise about aspects of the culture there in SC this side of the pond. People are saying, for instance, 'What? They fly the Confederate flag?' and 'They have streets named after Confederate generals?' The general assumption is that such things would, surely, be too incendiary places where there's been so much bad blood in relatively recent history.



I live close to Montgomery Al where they gave streets named after Lee, Jeff Davis, MLK and Rosa Parks.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Gun control...... - 6/22/2015 9:28:22 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The other flags ,the Star Spangled Banner and the SC state flag flying at half mast.

Not the treasonous one .

Got it.

Most people get it.


That is done on the Gov.'s order. A much easier process.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Owner59)
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