quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Wal-Mart was insisting on ID for canned air (to blow out electronics) or canned whipped cream last I knew.
Some dumbass in (pick a state) finds out you can get high on it, and we're all screwed.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
But I really don't like being hassled twice a year when I actually need the meth version of Sudafed.

aint that the truth.. in the spring i never know how much i will need, it might be hardly any, or it might be a bad pollen year for me and i might need more than the govt allows every month.. so over winter, i go in every month and get my allowable meds and stock pile them... This spring wasnt too bad so now i have enough for next spring still left over.. In Canada its on the shelves and you dont have to go thru all the BS that allergy sufferers have to go thru here..

Is the meth problem as large in Canada as it is in the US?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
umm.. the impression i have is no, its not as big a problem in Canada.. there are areas where it is used more & it has increased in use..
"U.S. Leads the World in Illegal Drug Use"
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20080630/us-leads-the-world-in-illegal-drug-use

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
"MOST people would agree that some drugs are worse than others: heroin is probably considered to be more dangerous than marijuana, for instance. Because governments formulate criminal and social policies based upon classifications of harm, a new study published by the Lancet on November 1st makes interesting reading. Researchers led by Professor David Nutt, a former chief drugs adviser to the British government, asked drug-harm experts to rank 20 drugs (legal and illegal) on 16 measures of harm to the user and to wider society, such as damage to health, drug dependency, economic costs and crime. Alcohol is the most harmful drug in Britain, scoring 72 out of a possible 100, far more damaging than heroin (55) or crack cocaine (54). It is the most harmful to others by a wide margin, and is ranked fourth behind heroin, crack, and methamphetamine (crystal meth) for harm to the individual. The authors point out that the model's weightings, though based on judgment, were analysed and found to be stable as large changes would be needed to change the overall rankings."
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm
Click on the link or the attachment to see a bar chart of the findings.

quote:



Drug Schedules



Drugs, substances, and certain chemicals used to make drugs are classified into five (5) distinct categories or schedules depending upon the drug’s acceptable medical use and the drug’s abuse or dependency potential. The abuse rate is a determinate factor in the scheduling of the drug; for example, Schedule I drugs are considered the most dangerous class of drugs with a high potential for abuse and potentially severe psychological and/or physical dependence. As the drug schedule changes-- Schedule II, Schedule III, etc., so does the abuse potential-- Schedule V drugs represents the least potential for abuse. A Listing of drugs and their schedule are located at Controlled Substance Act (CSA) Scheduling or CSA Scheduling by Alphabetical Order. These lists describes the basic or parent chemical and do not necessarily describe the salts, isomers and salts of isomers, esters, ethers and derivatives which may also be classified as controlled substances. These lists are intended as general references and are not comprehensive listings of all controlled substances.

Please note that a substance need not be listed as a controlled substance to be treated as a Schedule I substance for criminal prosecution. A controlled substance analogue is a substance which is intended for human consumption and is structurally or pharmacologically substantially similar to or is represented as being similar to a Schedule I or Schedule II substance and is not an approved medication in the United States. (See 21 U.S.C. §802(32)(A) for the definition of a controlled substance analogue and 21 U.S.C. §813 for the schedule.)


Schedule I

Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Schedule I drugs are the most dangerous drugs of all the drug schedules with potentially severe psychological or physical dependence. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:

heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote

Schedule II

Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, less abuse potential than Schedule I drugs, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. These drugs are also considered dangerous. Some examples of Schedule II drugs are:

Combination products with less than 15 milligrams of hydrocodone per dosage unit (Vicodin), cocaine, methamphetamine, methadone, hydromorphone (Dilaudid), meperidine (Demerol), oxycodone (OxyContin), fentanyl, Dexedrine, Adderall, and Ritalin

Schedule III

Schedule III drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a moderate to low potential for physical and psychological dependence. Schedule III drugs abuse potential is less than Schedule I and Schedule II drugs but more than Schedule IV. Some examples of Schedule III drugs are:

Products containing less than 90 milligrams of codeine per dosage unit (Tylenol with codeine), ketamine, anabolic steroids, testosterone

Schedule IV

Schedule IV drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a low potential for abuse and low risk of dependence. Some examples of Schedule IV drugs are:

Xanax, Soma, Darvon, Darvocet, Valium, Ativan, Talwin, Ambien, Tramadol

Schedule V

Schedule V drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with lower potential for abuse than Schedule IV and consist of preparations containing limited quantities of certain narcotics. Schedule V drugs are generally used for antidiarrheal, antitussive, and analgesic purposes. Some examples of Schedule V drugs are:

cough preparations with less than 200 milligrams of codeine or per 100 milliliters (Robitussin AC), Lomotil, Motofen, Lyrica, Parepectolin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
"MOST people would agree that some drugs are worse than others: heroin is probably considered to be more dangerous than marijuana, for instance. Because governments formulate criminal and social policies based upon classifications of harm, a new study published by the Lancet on November 1st makes interesting reading. Researchers led by Professor David Nutt, a former chief drugs adviser to the British government, asked drug-harm experts to rank 20 drugs (legal and illegal) on 16 measures of harm to the user and to wider society, such as damage to health, drug dependency, economic costs and crime. Alcohol is the most harmful drug in Britain, scoring 72 out of a possible 100, far more damaging than heroin (55) or crack cocaine (54). It is the most harmful to others by a wide margin, and is ranked fourth behind heroin, crack, and methamphetamine (crystal meth) for harm to the individual. The authors point out that the model's weightings, though based on judgment, were analysed and found to be stable as large changes would be needed to change the overall rankings."
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm
Click on the link or the attachment to see a bar chart of the findings.

I have to wonder if the widespread use of alcohol boosts it's impact. I'd be willing to bed having one drink every night isn't going to be as harmful to a person as having one snort/hit/etc.

But, to make things even more muddy in the US...

http://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml

quote:



Drug Schedules



Drugs, substances, and certain chemicals used to make drugs are classified into five (5) distinct categories or schedules depending upon the drug’s acceptable medical use and the drug’s abuse or dependency potential. The abuse rate is a determinate factor in the scheduling of the drug; for example, Schedule I drugs are considered the most dangerous class of drugs with a high potential for abuse and potentially severe psychological and/or physical dependence. As the drug schedule changes-- Schedule II, Schedule III, etc., so does the abuse potential-- Schedule V drugs represents the least potential for abuse. A Listing of drugs and their schedule are located at Controlled Substance Act (CSA) Scheduling or CSA Scheduling by Alphabetical Order. These lists describes the basic or parent chemical and do not necessarily describe the salts, isomers and salts of isomers, esters, ethers and derivatives which may also be classified as controlled substances. These lists are intended as general references and are not comprehensive listings of all controlled substances.

Please note that a substance need not be listed as a controlled substance to be treated as a Schedule I substance for criminal prosecution. A controlled substance analogue is a substance which is intended for human consumption and is structurally or pharmacologically substantially similar to or is represented as being similar to a Schedule I or Schedule II substance and is not an approved medication in the United States. (See 21 U.S.C. §802(32)(A) for the definition of a controlled substance analogue and 21 U.S.C. §813 for the schedule.)


Schedule I

Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Schedule I drugs are the most dangerous drugs of all the drug schedules with potentially severe psychological or physical dependence. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:

heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote

Schedule II

Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, less abuse potential than Schedule I drugs, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. These drugs are also considered dangerous. Some examples of Schedule II drugs are:

Combination products with less than 15 milligrams of hydrocodone per dosage unit (Vicodin), cocaine, methamphetamine, methadone, hydromorphone (Dilaudid), meperidine (Demerol), oxycodone (OxyContin), fentanyl, Dexedrine, Adderall, and Ritalin

Schedule III

Schedule III drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a moderate to low potential for physical and psychological dependence. Schedule III drugs abuse potential is less than Schedule I and Schedule II drugs but more than Schedule IV. Some examples of Schedule III drugs are:

Products containing less than 90 milligrams of codeine per dosage unit (Tylenol with codeine), ketamine, anabolic steroids, testosterone

Schedule IV

Schedule IV drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a low potential for abuse and low risk of dependence. Some examples of Schedule IV drugs are:

Xanax, Soma, Darvon, Darvocet, Valium, Ativan, Talwin, Ambien, Tramadol

Schedule V

Schedule V drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with lower potential for abuse than Schedule IV and consist of preparations containing limited quantities of certain narcotics. Schedule V drugs are generally used for antidiarrheal, antitussive, and analgesic purposes. Some examples of Schedule V drugs are:

cough preparations with less than 200 milligrams of codeine or per 100 milliliters (Robitussin AC), Lomotil, Motofen, Lyrica, Parepectolin

Heroin, LSD, Ecstasy, and Marijuana are in the same Schedule?!? Marijuana has less medical use, or is a higher risk of abuse/dependency than Cocaine, Methamphetamines, Adderal (which are amphetamine salts), Ritalin, Vicodin, Demerol and Oxycontin?!?

Marijuana got fucked when it got placed in Schedule 1. I was listening to the local drive-home radio show and they had on a proponent for legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp in Ohio (2 potential ballot initiatives this year). According to him, there have been multiple Presidents who have quashed drives to change marijuana's Schedule, even against the recommendation of medical professionals and advisors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I don't know about my head, but Whipped Cream makes my tummy happy.

I am of two minds (as I always am) on this issue:

The Libertarian in me says that people aught to be able to put whatever shit they want into their bodies. It's their life/their body.

Then, there's the child of alcoholics who knows what addiction can do to people and those around them. In particular there's one sentence in one post that really got my hackles up:

quote:

ORIGINAL kdsub

Few, except for the mentally ill and suicidal, want to be addicted but many do not have the support or resources to break their addiction...and they would if they could.

I'm sorry Butch, but that sentence tells me that you've never known anyone who was an addict or you just didn't understand.

There are plenty of people who know full well that they are addicted and just don't care. I knew a guy that had four years clean. His "running buddy" got out of jail. He signed over everything he owned to his wife (also a recovering addict), told her he was going out to get high, and left her and two beautiful children to chase his addiction; obviously knowing full-well what it was going to cost him. He didn't care.

Butch, I think you should try going to an AA or NA meeting or two and listen to some of the stories of addicts. Hear them tell you - in their own words - the things they did, knowing that they were addicts. You'd be humming a different tune.

Addiction used to be considered a form of mental illness and I can tell you, from personal experience, that it certainly is a form of insanity. This is what we would unleash.

Again: I'm not completely against legalization of any drug, but let's not look at the issue through rose-colored glasses.



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Marijuana got fucked when it got placed in Schedule 1. I was listening to the local drive-home radio show and they had on a proponent for legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp in Ohio (2 potential ballot initiatives this year). According to him, there have been multiple Presidents who have quashed drives to change marijuana's Schedule, even against the recommendation of medical professionals and advisors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Marijuana got fucked when it got placed in Schedule 1. I was listening to the local drive-home radio show and they had on a proponent for legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp in Ohio (2 potential ballot initiatives this year). According to him, there have been multiple Presidents who have quashed drives to change marijuana's Schedule, even against the recommendation of medical professionals and advisors.

Actually, the US govt cant legalize pot.. there are 3 international drug treaties the US is signed on the prohibits that.. the UN has already warned the US govt on this.. That is part of this whole problem and why the Feds are steadfast on this..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-humphreys/can-the-united-nations-bl_b_3977683.html

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I think ignoring the medical potential of marijuana is criminal.

Is it Congress or the President that decides whether or not to change a drug's schedule class?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Marijuana got fucked when it got placed in Schedule 1. I was listening to the local drive-home radio show and they had on a proponent for legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp in Ohio (2 potential ballot initiatives this year). According to him, there have been multiple Presidents who have quashed drives to change marijuana's Schedule, even against the recommendation of medical professionals and advisors.

Actually, the US govt cant legalize pot.. there are 3 international drug treaties the US is signed on the prohibits that.. the UN has already warned the US govt on this.. That is part of this whole problem and why the Feds are steadfast on this..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-humphreys/can-the-united-nations-bl_b_3977683.html

Just another way the UN system needs to be looked at. There might need to be some sort of system to relook at treaties regularly.

I wonder if dropping marijuana down to different schedules is allowed under the Treaty. That would make it a lot less criminal an act, I'd have to think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Marijuana got fucked when it got placed in Schedule 1. I was listening to the local drive-home radio show and they had on a proponent for legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp in Ohio (2 potential ballot initiatives this year). According to him, there have been multiple Presidents who have quashed drives to change marijuana's Schedule, even against the recommendation of medical professionals and advisors.

Actually, the US govt cant legalize pot.. there are 3 international drug treaties the US is signed on the prohibits that.. the UN has already warned the US govt on this.. That is part of this whole problem and why the Feds are steadfast on this..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-humphreys/can-the-united-nations-bl_b_3977683.html

Just another way the UN system needs to be looked at. There might need to be some sort of system to relook at treaties regularly.
I wonder if dropping marijuana down to different schedules is allowed under the Treaty. That would make it a lot less criminal an act, I'd have to think.

Rather than focussing on the UN's role, I feel it might be a better idea to recall that these international treaties were largely a result of the US pressure and policy, especially the provisions relating to marijuana.
It seems to me that this might be an occasion where US leadership might be welcome, particularly so if that leadership is going to correct its own historical errors.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Regardless of who pushed the treaty originally, if the US can't legalize marijuana because of UN treaties, those treaties might need to be re-looked at. If it requires a new UN treaty, then so be it. If it's going to take the US in the driver's seat to get that UN treaty, then so be it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Regardless of who pushed the treaty originally, if the US can't legalize marijuana because of UN treaties, those treaties might need to be re-looked at. If it requires a new UN treaty, then so be it. If it's going to take the US in the driver's seat to get that UN treaty, then so be it.

Realistically I feel this is what it's going to take. The US is the world's largest drug market, it has the most resourced anti-drug agencies, and the most comprehensive anti-drug production programs. Basically it's where all the money is. Already smaller countries such as Switzerland and Portugal have adopted realistic policies that breach the treaties. It appears that radical new approaches also enjoy considerable support in Central and South America. But until the US throws its considerable weight behind such initiatives they are likely to remain isolated events.
Fortunately there are some signs of such leadership on the horizon. The recent referenda results, the medical marijuana movement and public opinion all point to a people led push against the current drug laws and draconian anti-drug regimes.
Some might express surprise at the idea of a bottoms up revolution in drug laws but that's what democracy is supposed to be all about, isn't it? And the US voter is in a far better position than most to push changes through.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


Which is why I want the US to change it's stance on this issue.