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NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/7/2015 1:45:12 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32620742

Finally a court recognized this. Would love to see the ruling when it comes out
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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/7/2015 2:24:05 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		YAY!

So are they going to dump the records they do have?


***I know, I know, keep dreaming.

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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/7/2015 3:05:46 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32620742

Finally a court recognized this. Would love to see the ruling when it comes out

To quote from another thread "laws are changed all the time, or did you forget that"



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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/7/2015 3:17:21 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		I have a link as I am just to fucking lazy but as with most of this shit...it's full of loopholes.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/7/2015 3:35:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I have a link as I am just to fucking lazy but as with most of this shit...it's full of loopholes.

It was used to say that it was ok for Hillary to ignore immigration law.
In this case it would mean that since maybe at some time in the future Obama's NSA policy could be legalized we shouldn't be concerned with Obama violating current law. The loophole is that since Obama is a liberal Democrat and everyone knows that anything they do is fine.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/8/2015 3:23:03 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		It sure makes a case for pardon for Snowden. He risked all by violating official secrets laws to show the world proof of legal violations in the security community.

I only have a marginal personal take on security. I've seen way too much that required a clearance to work on just to run up the price of working on it. And, to keep the work force on certain projects only for cronies of the prime contractor.

i.e. DHS requiring an L clearance for testing bomb sniffers that has been required for use in Nuclear facilities since 1992. They hated that so many could tell what they were testing at 200 yards by virtue of having to used them for decades. No, no one leaked information. You just had the delivery door standing open so you could use the sniffer on a truck. We've seen that a hundred times before.

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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/8/2015 6:15:24 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline 		Okay, just to say something here. It's not on par with MercTech. We're supposed to be secure from the government in our persons , houses and papers. I would say that cell phone calls are as valid as old timey papers. Just as the liberals argued that the second amendment only applied to flintlock rifles and were idiots, this has to carry over to the latest technology. But, if the article is complete, then we're not talking about content of conversations, just time stamps and numbers. Things the government used to go to the phone company for in the old days. Stuff the phone company kept. So, I can always go for the government having less. But why such a big deal about something that seems to be a routine slap at the NSA. The government always tries this sorta stuff and I don't see it being slapped down as a big deal. Help me here. What don't I see?

(in reply to MercTech)
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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/8/2015 7:13:02 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It sure makes a case for pardon for Snowden.


I might of agreed with you if revealing the phone records were all he revealed...

Butch

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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/8/2015 10:46:46 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		A ot of people don't realize what is entailed in a database of metadata that was mentioned in a few news stories.

Location - which cell tower and even GPS coordinates for GPS equipped phones
IMEI number that made the call
The number the call was made to, including IMEI number if a cellphone or the web location if it is a data request or automatic upload.
This stuff is logged whenever your phone accesses the cell towers; not just when you make a call

With just access to the metadata without the content of any phone calls who you interact with can be determined, patterns of travel can be logged, and where your data goes or where you get data from.

Should this type of data collection require a warrant or should it be routine for trolling the airwaves for terrorist activity?

I still like the unofficial NSA jacket patch... the pyramid eye like on the back of the dollar bill with the logo "In God We Trust. All others we monitor" Kinda true..

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 5:55:43 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		FR

This drives back to my post in another thread.

the damage is done, it took 10 years to get it through the courts. Where do I go to collect damages? Oh wait they dont or cant pay damages, or if they do its from our pockets to our pockets since we fund them!

Meanwhile the perps have all this info stored and the operation completely served their purposes which included imbedding the system into the networks with large scale testing and time to work out all the bugs.

Now in a position to simply flip a switch when ever they want against whome ever they want with no one being the wiser since we are not inside watching and peronally monitoring their daily operations, and such convenient timing!

The measures - repeatedly approved in secret by a national security court since 2006 - are set to expire on 1 June.


Secret courts?????

In America?

No shit?

People wonder how Germany was taken over?

How many times have we heard that?

Take notes!

Coming to a theater near you!

Oops I mean already at a theater near you.


Now they can target anyone with the ability to record and store ALL records transmitted privately over the wires. On air broadcast intended for public consumption of course is different.


I am still in shock that people exist that believe in the 2 party system and that we are under government rather than ever growing mob control.


we are being played.






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/9/2015 6:10:03 AM >

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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 7:27:13 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		i haven't paid a lot of attention to this, but from what I can tell, rand paul is the only present presidential candidate for whom things like this are on the radar screen.

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RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 8:08:13 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Rand paul is changing his mind as often as a newborn gets its arse changed

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 8:56:35 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Rand paul is changing his mind as often as a newborn gets its arse changed


I am sure you have some links to back that up

(LMFAO, yeah right)

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 9:38:59 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Rand paul is changing his mind as often as a newborn gets its arse changed


I am sure you have some links to back that up

(LMFAO, yeah right)

About six, so far, but hey why dont you do me a favour and link me to where I am wrong.....


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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 9:54:54 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Rand paul is changing his mind as often as a newborn gets its arse changed


I am sure you have some links to back that up

(LMFAO, yeah right)

About six, so far, but hey why dont you do me a favour and link me to where I am wrong.....



Its your claim, Pinocchio

You back it up...

Its good to see you back posting btw. I was so sad for a while.... Thought that maybe you had gone for a long walk with a couple of trolls who shall remain nameless




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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 10:07:21 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



Its your claim, Pinocchio

You back it up...

Its good to see you back posting btw. I was so sad for a while.... Thought that maybe you had gone for a long walk with a couple of trolls who shall remain nameless




not a chance, y'all aint worth a ban, ive been chuckling it up over the rwnjbs over the past few days but have been posting else where here, BUT its so nice that you are concerned for me. Bless your heart
SNORTS
http://www.newsmax.com/RichLowry/Rand-Paul-Flip-Flops-Iran/2015/04/10/id/637718/
http://themoderatevoice.com/204120/rand-paul-flip-flopping-away-from-libertarianism-as-he-enters-republican-race/
http://time.com/3759378/rand-paul-defense-spending/
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/rand-paul-flip-flops-to-defend-obamas-drone-strikes-there-is-a-valuable-use-for-drones/
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/08/rand-paul-abortion-foreign-policy-interviews
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/416731/rand-pauls-uncertain-trumpet-rich-lowry
http://personalliberty.com/whats-deal-rand-pauls-latest-drone-remarks/
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/26/rand_pauls_spectacular_crash_how_a_man_of_principle_turned_into_a_generic_politician/
http://www.defenseone.com/politics/2015/04/paradox-rand-pauls-national-security-moment/109801/

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 10:17:38 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



Its your claim, Pinocchio

You back it up...

Its good to see you back posting btw. I was so sad for a while.... Thought that maybe you had gone for a long walk with a couple of trolls who shall remain nameless




not a chance, y'all aint worth a ban, ive been chuckling it up over the rwnjbs over the past few days but have been posting else where here, BUT its so nice that you are concerned for me. Bless your heart
SNORTS
http://www.newsmax.com/RichLowry/Rand-Paul-Flip-Flops-Iran/2015/04/10/id/637718/
http://themoderatevoice.com/204120/rand-paul-flip-flopping-away-from-libertarianism-as-he-enters-republican-race/
http://time.com/3759378/rand-paul-defense-spending/
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/rand-paul-flip-flops-to-defend-obamas-drone-strikes-there-is-a-valuable-use-for-drones/
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/08/rand-paul-abortion-foreign-policy-interviews
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/416731/rand-pauls-uncertain-trumpet-rich-lowry
http://personalliberty.com/whats-deal-rand-pauls-latest-drone-remarks/
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/26/rand_pauls_spectacular_crash_how_a_man_of_principle_turned_into_a_generic_politician/
http://www.defenseone.com/politics/2015/04/paradox-rand-pauls-national-security-moment/109801/



Oh blessed it is to be a rwnjbs rather than a kool aide drinking looney leftist, or merely passive aggressive elitist. The irony is that being a leftist looney, not mentioning any person here, so rarely involves humor.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 10:58:28 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		recently in one of the "snippy" interviews, rand paul actually got upset over this issue when the interviewer assumed he had flipped on a number of issues and presumed that has the basis for her question. pauls response, in part was, why don't you ask me if I have changed my position? his response implies there is context that is being left out.

but as importantly, when a democrat changes his mind, he is "evolving."

when a republican changes his mind, he is a "flip flop" or "pandering."




< Message edited by bounty44 -- 5/9/2015 10:59:44 AM >

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 1:06:06 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
recently in one of the "snippy" interviews, rand paul actually got upset over this issue when the interviewer assumed he had flipped on a number of issues and presumed that has the basis for her question. pauls response, in part was, why don't you ask me if I have changed my position? his response implies there is context that is being left out.

but as importantly, when a democrat changes his mind, he is "evolving."

when a republican changes his mind, he is a "flip flop" or "pandering."


Conservatives see people running for office as 'weak' if they change a position. Even if the new position is a better one thanks to more up-to-date information, someone made a set of good arguments, or personal reflection on the issue at hand. Conservatives have a very bad habit of 'staying the course' even as they sink straight into quicksand. Were as everyone else would simply navigate around it and proceed without an issue.

Mr. Paul has realized that even if he wins the GOP nomination he still has to win in the general election. Unlike the GOP race, which is a battle to be as 'purist conservative' (like out Nazi'ing a Nazi); the General Election requires someone to be as 'middle of the road' as possible. Americans really did not want a 'stay the course' President but someone that could steer around the obstacles in the nation's way. Which is one of many reasons why Mr. Obama became a US President and not John McCain. For Mr. Paul to win in the general election he has to show he has access to the best possible information, thinking capacity, and wise enough not to screw around. But that get's seen as 'flip-flopping' and 'doing liberal things'.


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: NSA Phone Data Collection Illegal - 5/9/2015 3:56:49 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I noticed sanity scurried off.....and what with hunter trying to be intelligent And failing.
my day could not have ended better.


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(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 20
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