HELP/advice: wife not playing... (Full Version)

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H2Otigre -> HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 1:52:18 PM)

Hi All,

Question for honest, truly helpful feedback: A couple years ago I was getting very close to exploring a true D/s relationship. We all have all kinds of fantasies, but I really identified with the dominant side of an "alt" type of relationship. Then, quite out of the blue, writes a delicious blond morsel from [far away country]. We chat and email and email and chat and things get pretty HOT. Then we start sharing fantasies, etc. I tell her, somewhat bashfully, that my fantasy is to have a slave. She's quiet, but non critical. And while not offering to be one to me :~( (lol), she does not cringe, either. Even after sending her some links to D/s BDSM and "taken in hand" sites, she responds positively, actually, but also discloses some fears. While I was somewhat flexible (it takes two to tango), I was very clear about what sort of relationship I wanted. She responded positively to many shared stories, my own and those of other, of domination and submission. She expressed arousal... a good sign, I thought. I should say that I'd had some, if very limited, experience with dominating a woman sexually. And she'd had none (being dominated).
So, after some months of calls, daily IM and emails, we soon met face to face, first me visiting her, then her me, and ... I tried some things out on her, one at a time, testing the juicy waters of "kink" (well, for us at least). All was well... except to my mild, yet hardly deal-breaking dissapointment, she has no real taste (none expressed) for bondage and/or pain arousal at any level. Meanwhile, our love relationship grew... and I can say that she is pretty submissive in the bedroom. Nothing major but, for example I do, and she likes me to, hold her head and hair, applying motion and gentle force, while she's going down on me. I tried pulling her hair once, when behind her, but no luck.... I do spank her, though not hard (I'm coming to the question... set-up is helpful for context).
So last Feb. we got married. She'd moved here to be with me from [non US country] so, while neither of us felt compelled, it was somewhat necessary on a practicle level, for her continued stay (visa ran out, wants to work, etc.). Cut to July: now she getting to be a real pain in the ass. The proverbial honeymoon is OVER and she is less and less submissive by the week. It really is a total dissapointment. I WAS SO CLEAR! This morning (7/15) she declared "I don't like anyone telling me what to do."
Okay... so my question is: What to do when you're an inexperienced Dom, doing your best to keep your previously submissive (if not very...) wife in check, but she simply won't play along and, in fact, I am totally commited to her and our marriage?
Please, only sincere, experienced and helpful suggestions.


Dr. Warren, if you would, perhaps, please chime in as I'd read and respected your Loving Dom. book.

PS. She has declared that she'll give me a blowjob anytime I want, and it has so far stuck to her word. She has also said she loved the idea that I can fuck her any time I want, anywhere. She does like it when I call her a slut, etc. (even asking me to), durring "vanilla" sex. So perhaps all it not lost on the sexual front. But on the field of interpersonal communications, she's a royal pain in the ass now. The main problem is of over interpritation (assigning criticism where none was stated or intended). Her problem appears mainly to revolve around trust... I did date someone else just as our long-distance relationship was forming (so did she...), and now she's using it as some sort of excuse not to trust and commit and submit, as agreed. And by the way I am totally faithful, commited, I don't lie, beat, cheat, drink, wink, NOTHING! Nor does she. We're both honest folks doing our best to make a good go of it. I do all I can as her husband, elder (12 years dif.) and Man to steer her in the right direction, but.... We need some major intervention, else our marriage will almost surely fail (never mind become a family). It's serious. I'm a good sort, really; extremely well read, overly traveled, patient, kind and strong Man. I am human, too, and can, with persistant effort, be provoked to anger (and the full range of human emotion). But I can not, however, suffer a fool forever. I am not a hitter or hater... can nothing be done to get her in line?




enigmabrat -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 1:59:42 PM)

I dont really know what to say... exept that you cant make a sub out of a non  sub just as you cant make a Dom out of a non Dom... maybe she got into something she didnt really want and now has to stay for the visa... we cant answer for her but if you are unhappy do something about it.. what that is I have no idea.... a devorse an open marrage I dont know there are many things




slavejali -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:05:21 PM)

You poor love. I guess what it is going to come down to is "What is the priority for you in relationship?" Love or kink? You seem to love your wife, you might just have to forfeit your kink desires, settle down and live a vanilla life.

Saying that, if this is  a personality clash, example: you really do have a dominant personality that requires a submissive personality to compliment you in relationship, I hate to say this but your marriage is in trouble. You cant make someone into something they are not, or cannot relate to. You will drive yourself insane trying to do so...and you both will be very unhappy eventually.

I don't know what else to say.

Take care.




Chaingang -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:16:49 PM)

Short answer:
You're fucked. Get out of it. You were played. Kick her to the curb.

Good luck!




YveGee -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:21:39 PM)

Unfortunately, wife or not, BDSM requires consensuality. If she doesn't consent, you can't do it. Otherwise you may find a need for a lawyer for spousal abuse.

You probably need to consult an immigration lawyer anyways. Marriage does not automatically guarantee a visa, especially not a work visa. Was she here on a fiancee's visa?

You may want to begin marriage counselling. You need to find out about her views of marriage and her role in a marriage. From the sounds of it, you can bid BDSM good-bye.

Yve




juliaoceania -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:24:28 PM)

Not enough information to say what is happening to you.. As Jali said.. consider what your priority is. I believe it is in bad form to do a bait and switch on someone. If I did this to a man I wouldn't expect him to keep me marriage license or not. I have known of many others played like this with just sex on the line... Soon after the "I dos" are exchanged, one of them quit putting out the sex. it is just wrong.




H2Otigre -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:36:07 PM)

1) Her visa is already well underway... no problem there. It just sort of accellerated the marriage, is all. 2) The consentuality clause is under no duress... sorry: thought that was clear.

So while all input is encouraged, please do recognise it's a question of aquiring the cooperation of someone who is not cooperating... posted here because of our originally expressed desires being well aligned with this affinity group.




juliaoceania -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:42:39 PM)

If you are responding to my post, I really think you have as much right as I do to post questions here.. that wasn't what I said. I said it is not right to agree to something and then change the rules once you get what you want out of it. It isn't a very submissive action either. I was referring to your new wife and her withdrawl of consent.  I wish I had some advice that would be helpful to you, I just don't.. sorry.




H2Otigre -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:46:13 PM)

I do appreciate your comments, genuine interest, time and thoughts. Truly. :~)




feastie -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:50:09 PM)

Well, consider the idea that maybe you're just coming off as bossy?  I don't know, obviously, but it's a thought.  Perhaps, you need to back off a bit and let things develop more naturally and slowly.  You don't even have six months invested in the marriage yet, she's moved here from another country...that's two hugely stressful things for most people anyway.  Moving and marriage.  She may only be submissive in the bedroom, but you maybe should have gotten that clear on *both* sides before jumping into marriage.

I think you need more time, patience, and more communication based on the information you've provided.  Of course, we don't know her side and you may well be acting like a jerk (no offense meant), we just don't know. 




DoctorDubious -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:50:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: H2Otigre

... much valuable backbackground snipped...


It's serious. I'm a good sort, really; extremely well read, overly traveled, patient, kind and strong Man. I am human, too, and can, with persistant effort, be provoked to anger (and the full range of human emotion). But I can not, however, suffer a fool forever. I am not a hitter or hater... can nothing be done to get her in line?



Dear H2O... and all....

I guess the first thing to say is,
how human, real, and touching your story is.
When two hearts connect and then grow apart,
pain and confusion and anger and accusations are almost guaranteed.  You can be sure she has the same feelings,
or more.... that you do.

Second, I'd like to suggest that you be
very careful with some of the cheap, glib,
dangerous advice so common on forums..

eg.."you got fucked get out of it. You were played..."

We don't know what happened at all...
I suspect even the two of you are bewildered by your state...

Several people have suggested formal marriage/relationship advice,
and that is often an excellent idea, provided you get a wise advisor... I'm not saying do it, but I do suggest you and her consider it... and if you do it, shop VERY carefully...

Finally, I'd like you to look at those words in red above.
I know you had to abbreviate things for the forum,
but I'd like you to consider this;

... to make an implicit suggestion your wife is a fool
borders on contempt.  Contempt, as Gottman says,
is the final killer of almost all relationships. 
Beware of this unless you are sure you are done.
And if you are done, then why bother with contempt?

... get her into line?
Come on man.
A marriage has to run both ways ...
.... you both have  to "get into line" if you want to make this work.

Unless you are perfect in every way.

DD







maybemaybenot -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 2:54:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: H2Otigre

... can nothing be done to get her in line?


IMO, this is the core of your post. My answer is No, not unless she wants to " get in line". If she has misrepresented her intentions, you have been decieved and how you choose to deal with that is the question, IMO.
For example, I am a non masochistic submissive. No amount of cajoling or conversation is going to change that. I am what I am. You can't change the inner core of a persons make up. If she is telling you she doesn't like being told what to do, then she doesn't like it. I would suggest you listen to her and decide what * you* need to do.
I am not being a smart ass, I am trying to save you a whole lot of frustration and head banging. You know the old saying: The only person you can really change is you.

Best of luck to you, this must be very disconcerting for you. I don't envy you your current situation..

             mbmbn




Level -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:05:56 PM)

Not meaning to be rude, but do you think she "signed on" to a shared interest in BDSM just to get to America?
 
 




ShutUpandObey -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:06:49 PM)

Her complaining that you were dating someone else at the time you two first learned of each other's existence is a ruse.  She's known that all along.

The longer your marriage goes on, the deeper you'll get in problems.  Definitely sounds as though you were played.  Got into the U.S. of A......

As far as this that you wrote: "2) The consentuality clause is under no duress... sorry: thought that was clear."  The reference is unclear.  Whether she consents or not, under duress or not, to anything that would look bad in court or to a police officer, is irrelevant.  You can't unring a bell, and once the legal system is involved, it's impression of you won't help you one damn bit.

I repeat:  sounds as though you were played, with a capital P. 




Lashra -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:07:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

You poor love. I guess what it is going to come down to is "What is the priority for you in relationship?" Love or kink? You seem to love your wife, you might just have to forfeit your kink desires, settle down and live a vanilla life.

Saying that, if this is  a personality clash, example: you really do have a dominant personality that requires a submissive personality to compliment you in relationship, I hate to say this but your marriage is in trouble. You cant make someone into something they are not, or cannot relate to. You will drive yourself insane trying to do so...and you both will be very unhappy eventually.

I don't know what else to say.

Take care.

You said it correctly slavejali, you cannot make someone into something they are not. Perhaps she thought a D/s relationship is what she wanted or just maybe you two didn't know each other as well as you thought you did. Who really knows? People change with time and we either grow and change with them, or we move on.

Good luck,

~Lashra




H2Otigre -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:07:22 PM)

PS. I consider her love gunuine and commitment sincere (the best she can offer). But there is an abandoning of the values and desires that our relationship was built on that is disturbing... the more she tries to pull our relationship back to vanilla-land the more unhappy I am, and more drawn back to thoughts and scenarios of domination/submission. Hrm....
And while I'm at it (if you'll indulge a philosophical chap) I should say that the oft stated "vanilla" ideal of a 50/50 relationship (the P word [power] seems not to enter that conversation somehow), though philsophically attractive (like true democracy), it remains an unfulfilled ideal... like some utopia where all are born, raised and treated equally, given truly equal opportunity, and rewarded according to merit. It just really doesn't seem to suit actual practice and human nature, somehow... I've it all this a good deal of attention. Someone has to "wear the pants" and make the decisions... with consent, input and feedback, of course! But I can not give my consent to to a fulfilling a roll that goes against my nature, personality, aquired knowledge, and personal development.
Well, I'll keep checking here for posts... and keep you posted, if interested.




Owned1 -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:10:20 PM)

i agree what has been said on various forms.   Truly unless one wants to come in line you cant force them.  My suggestion would be to sit down together and have an open honest discussion with each side listening to the other as to eachs wants needs and desires.  Perhaps she does not fully understand the dynamics of what you are looking for

But as so well said it may come down to what is most important kink or marriage.  Becareful what you ask as you may not get the answer you are looking for




H2Otigre -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:10:28 PM)

Points well taken. THANKS.




MrrPete -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:31:28 PM)

If you're open to counseling get one that is kiink friendly.

This will be tougher but if you don't want counseling try to find a kink
friendly immagration attorney. Get the marriage annulled and send her back
to wherever she came from

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink is quite true.

But you CAN make them thirsty.




crouchingtigress -> RE: HELP/advice: wife not playing... (7/15/2006 3:40:31 PM)

I dont know you not do i know her but i am familiar with some basics of the human psyche.
 
We all, doms and subs alike, are motivated by reward, and repulsed by force.
 
D/s looks from an outside POV to circumvent this core truth, but it does not, and it is quite a journey in and of itself as to why that is, but back to the truth of human existence, we are all motivated by reward.
 
What this means is that you cant explain, nor orchestrate, nor demand, nor commandeer her submission even if she and you both have decreed and decided that to be the case, and i know that because you are new you may have this a little confused, but trust me, a D/s relationship is about mutual meeting of the minds.
 
You seem as though you are taking a practical and pragmatic approach to your wifes heart.
 
Hearts dont work that way.
 
What i would do, is to refrain from all d/s, she has with drawn her consent, and it is not healthy nor appropriate at this time to force her.
 
I would with all draw vanilla sexual advances as well.
 
This may seem scary because you may think that you may never again get laid, but dont withdraw from her, just withdraw the angst and the need of sexual release.
 
Offer to help her with house work, give her a massage, draw her a bath, support her....love her....appriciate her.
 
Also, you cant just point her to websites and hope that her silence is consent, you need to hold her hand, explore together, explore what she is curious about when the time comes.
 
It seems like she is the one that has done the sacrificing in this thing so far, she moved, she has done the wife thing, she is learning a new language, she is making new friends, she is missing her roots, her family, anything familiar and what you seem to be doing and saying is that you dont seem to get this.
 
Do you realise that the two most stressfull times in a persons life is moving and getting married?
 
Look, when you uproot a tree it wont bear fruit for a year or two.....it takes time to grow new roots and find firm foundation. And that is a tree, a simple life form, humans are very complex life forms.
 
Ill bet she is scared, lonely, angry, hurt, and you really are not helping things by the I am the Dom attitude.
 
You asked for advice and i am taking the time to give it to you, not to judge you or make you feel bad, my advice is lay off the d/s, lay off the pressure for sex, ....masturbate in the shower, nurture your precious lil plant, play with her in America, go on road trips, find out what she loves and why....
 
I am not of the mind she has played you, those thoughts are toxic if you let them in, i am of the mind that she is a child hearted woman, who has just shocked her whole system, and is needing a friend right now much more then a master.....
 
There is a time for everything, learning to be a master can come later, right now focus on learning to be a friend




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