Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (Full Version)

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Marini -> Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 7:38:18 PM)

I thought this case was very interesting.
Beyond that, a legal precedent could be set, for other similar cases {Alzheimers, Dementia, Cognitive Impairments, etc.}
Whether Henry is found guilty of rape or not, this case is laying the groundwork for so many other cases.

Henry Rayhons {78}, is being charged with raping his wife who had Alzheimers.
*His wife passed away on August 8, due to complications from her illness.

The couple had only been married 7 years, and everyone is attesting to how close and loving the couple was, prior to Donna's diagnosis.

Henry is on trial for 3rd degree sexual abuse, for raping his wife Donna.
Prosecutors are stating that Donna could not have agreed to consensual sex because she suffered from Alzheimers.

NYTimes--Sex, Dementia and husband on trial at 78


It has been mentioned that couples may soon have to sign something similar to a power of attorney document, stating whether or not their partner may have sex with them if they become mentally/or physically impaired.

I guess I would sign the document, and hope for the best.
**Remember you could only SIGN the document PRIOR to/or in the early stages of coming down with this sort of illness, or it will be said you were not competent to make the decision.
[8|]



slvemike4u -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 7:41:02 PM)

Weirdest story I ever read,bazaar .



Sanity -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 8:22:51 PM)


From the article:
]
quote:

One obstacle: Dementia’s symptoms fluctuate. Patients may be relatively lucid in the morning and significantly impaired in the afternoon.

“What may be appropriate on one day may not be appropriate the next week, or at a different point that same day,” said Ann Christine Frankowski, associate director of the Center for Aging Studies at University of Maryland, Baltimore County.


So, anyone with symptoms of dementia or other mental issues should be examined by a mental health expert and undergo a battery of mental tests immediately prior to having sex with a significant other?



Aylee -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 8:28:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


From the article:
]
quote:

One obstacle: Dementia’s symptoms fluctuate. Patients may be relatively lucid in the morning and significantly impaired in the afternoon.

“What may be appropriate on one day may not be appropriate the next week, or at a different point that same day,” said Ann Christine Frankowski, associate director of the Center for Aging Studies at University of Maryland, Baltimore County.


So, anyone with symptoms of dementia or other mental issues should be examined by a mental health expert and undergo a battery of mental tests immediately prior to having sex with a significant other?


They said that if I voted for Romney the government would be intruding into my bedroom, and THEY WERE RIGHT!



Marini -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 8:35:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


From the article:
]
quote:

One obstacle: Dementia’s symptoms fluctuate. Patients may be relatively lucid in the morning and significantly impaired in the afternoon.

“What may be appropriate on one day may not be appropriate the next week, or at a different point that same day,” said Ann Christine Frankowski, associate director of the Center for Aging Studies at University of Maryland, Baltimore County.


So, anyone with symptoms of dementia or other mental issues should be examined by a mental health expert and undergo a battery of mental tests immediately prior to having sex with a significant other?


It's a very slippery slope.
Think of ALL the range of all the conditions that could eventually be effected.
Does coming down with Alzheimers, dementia, mental illnesses such as being bipolar, schizophrenic, manic-depressive disorder, and other cognitive impairments, mean the end of sex for you?



CreativeDominant -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 8:59:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


From the article:
]
quote:

One obstacle: Dementia’s symptoms fluctuate. Patients may be relatively lucid in the morning and significantly impaired in the afternoon.

“What may be appropriate on one day may not be appropriate the next week, or at a different point that same day,” said Ann Christine Frankowski, associate director of the Center for Aging Studies at University of Maryland, Baltimore County.


So, anyone with symptoms of dementia or other mental issues should be examined by a mental health expert and undergo a battery of mental tests immediately prior to having sex with a significant other?


It's a very slippery slope.
Think of ALL the range of all the conditions that could eventually be effected: bipolar, schizophrenia, alzheimers, all cognitive impairements, autism, manic-depressive disorders, dementia.

Not just manic-depressive...probably any sort of depression, anxiety disorder, panic attacks, etc.



Marini -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 9:10:18 PM)

Imagine the possibilites, especially when you have other family members involved.
It appears that one of Mrs. Rayhons daughter's {from her prior marriage} was instrumental in pressing the charges.

When you are incapacitated family members tend to get involved.
We all know how that can turn out.
I think signing some sort of document will soon be in many of our futures.
Mrs. Rayhons daughter managed to legally get power of attorney, after Mr. Rayhon was accused of having sex with her mother in the nursing home.
Mr. Rayhon is shown on tape throwing away his wife's panties, after leaving the room.



camille65 -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 9:31:27 PM)

This was discussed on another board I belong to (vanilla, primarily women) and I was the outlier. They all agreed he is a terrible man who deserves jail time, that it could be nothing but rape since she was declared incompetent and unable to consent.

I disagreed. Now I do not believe any married person has the right to demand/receive sex, I went through that myself with my ex. He'd fuck me while I was mostly unconscious due to pain meds and not tell me about it until much later. That had the strong element of deceit.

I don't know how to label or term the situation in the OP but it just doesn't feel like rape to me.

That could easily change though if more details come to light.



JVoV -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/16/2015 11:19:42 PM)

How much money does the daughter stand to lose if the estate has the husband as primary beneficiary?



tweakabelle -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 2:53:41 AM)

Underlying this issue is the thorny question of consent.

It really ought to be a straightforward issue but as this case, and other related cases illustrate, it can be a minefield. It seems likely to stay this way - a potential minefield - until such time as we can arrive at a consensus about the issue of consent. I hope that we can all agree that freely chosen fully informed consent is a given in all circumstances.

If we can agree on this baseline then it gives us a firm foundation on which individual cases where there may be some degree of ambiguity can be then judged on their merits.



Lucylastic -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 3:05:47 AM)

There are so many sides to this,
Personally from what the "article" said, I dont think the guy should be charged with anything. he may have been told that she wasnt cognizant enough to have sex, at his age, it could have slipped his mind.
If his poor wife had been upset about the incident afterwards, I could see it having been a problem, the staff have to protect the residents, if she was scared of him, or didnt want to see him, or her mental and physical health was altered by his visits, definitely look into it.
But Im not second guessing the doctors opinions, theres too much we dont know.
During my years working with the elderly, I agree with the opinion close to the end, the last thing we lose is the sense of being loved, cared for, cuddled. touched.
And even today grown up children are unhappy with their parents sexuality being exhibited outside their homes, hell even IN their homes.
The further issue of people who are suffering mental issues, should or shouldnt be having sex while under the care of a residence, hospital setting or institution, (its a huge slippery slope), for me it should be based on a case by case basis, but that rarely happens.
The cynic in me agrees with Jvov about the daughter, but then it happens way more often than it should
imagine the nightmare at 78 of being arrested for rape of your wife.....



CreativeDominant -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 8:12:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

How much money does the daughter stand to lose if the estate has the husband as primary beneficiary?

I'm aghast, Jvov...don't you know that children NEVER think that way?



tj444 -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 12:32:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I thought this case was very interesting.
Beyond that, a legal precedent could be set, for other similar cases {Alzheimers, Dementia, Cognitive Impairments, etc.}
Whether Henry is found guilty of rape or not, this case is laying the groundwork for so many other cases.

Henry Rayhons {78}, is being charged with raping his wife who had Alzheimers.
*His wife passed away on August 8, due to complications from her illness.

The couple had only been married 7 years, and everyone is attesting to how close and loving the couple was, prior to Donna's diagnosis.

Henry is on trial for 3rd degree sexual abuse, for raping his wife Donna.
Prosecutors are stating that Donna could not have agreed to consensual sex because she suffered from Alzheimers.

NYTimes--Sex, Dementia and husband on trial at 78


It has been mentioned that couples may soon have to sign something similar to a power of attorney document, stating whether or not their partner may have sex with them if they become mentally/or physically impaired.

I guess I would sign the document, and hope for the best.
**Remember you could only SIGN the document PRIOR to/or in the early stages of coming down with this sort of illness, or it will be said you were not competent to make the decision.
[8|]


I think at the point of her illness where the most basic things cant be remembered, he is guilty as the law stands and he has courted trouble due to the staff saying no to him having sex with her.. I expect he knew this as well since he took her panties and threw them into a hallway laundrybag.. He was a state legislator (R), he should know law, shouldnt he?



Kaliko -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 4:03:36 PM)

The softy in me thinks that maybe he recognized a lucid moment and wanted to be with his wife one more time. Kind of creepy and touching all at once.



Awareness -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 6:10:01 PM)

I think the case is bullshit, myself. The ostensible underlying principle is that someone who has Alzheimers or dementia is no longer able to consent to any sexual activity.

Which basically means that even if the person with Alzheimers feels the desire, there's no legal way for them to indulge that desire.

So as well as having a disease, you're now denied sexual pleasure. Personally I think this is a product of extremely conservative values. (Old people having sex? Ewwwww!)

The idea that this guy is some kind of sexual predator because he - and let's be clear here - fucked his wife is a repulsive viewpoint put forward by people who clearly have some fucking issues.



Sanity -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 6:21:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I think the case is bullshit, myself. The ostensible underlying principle is that someone who has Alzheimers or dementia is no longer able to consent to any sexual activity.

Which basically means that even if the person with Alzheimers feels the desire, there's no legal way for them to indulge that desire.

So as well as having a disease, you're now denied sexual pleasure. Personally I think this is a product of extremely conservative values. (Old people having sex? Ewwwww!)

The idea that this guy is some kind of sexual predator because he - and let's be clear here - fucked his wife is a repulsive viewpoint put forward by people who clearly have some fucking issues.


Not just Alzheimer's though, any situation in which someone MAY not be considered able to consent

Be very careful when enjoying that that glass of wine with your SO, my friend

Etc etc etc








Marini -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 8:40:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I think at the point of her illness where the most basic things cant be remembered, he is guilty as the law stands and he has courted trouble due to the staff saying no to him having sex with her.. I expect he knew this as well since he took her panties and threw them into a hallway laundrybag.. He was a state legislator (R), he should know law, shouldnt he?


I found it ironic that he is a 5 term state legislator.
I don't think that it has been mentioned, but he was told/warned a few weeks prior to the situation, that the medical staff/along with his wife's daughter, felt that his wife was not competent enough to consent to sex.
**It appeared that he ignored what was told to him, and had sex with his wife anyway.**

I don't feel that Mr. Rayhons should be jailed, I think probation is enough for him.
I personally feel that Mr.Rayhons also felt a small sense of entitlement.
Many people would not have gone against what the medical staff told them.
Again, I think a slap on the wrist, is enough in this case.



Marini -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 8:45:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I think the case is bullshit, myself. The ostensible underlying principle is that someone who has Alzheimers or dementia is no longer able to consent to any sexual activity.

Which basically means that even if the person with Alzheimers feels the desire, there's no legal way for them to indulge that desire.

So as well as having a disease, you're now denied sexual pleasure. Personally I think this is a product of extremely conservative values. (Old people having sex? Ewwwww!)

The idea that this guy is some kind of sexual predator because he - and let's be clear here - fucked his wife is a repulsive viewpoint put forward by people who clearly have some fucking issues.


Hiya Awareness, always nice to see you playing down here.
The fact that he was told that his wife was not competent enough to agree to sex, and he had sex with her in the nursing home, is a bit weird to me.
She even had a roommate!
I think dude was bold myself, he pulled the curtains and did whatever he did.
I don't think he should be put through a trial, I think probation is enough.

Would you really want to have sex with someone in a nursing home, that has a roommate in the room?



Extravagasm -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/17/2015 11:07:25 PM)

Hubbie Henry could've been a rocket scientist, as a young man, what of it? That was then, this is now. Now, moralizing over guilt and punishments, is inappropriate, because Henry is apparently not all-there either.
Look, if the daughter (or step-daughter) was able to restle power-of-attorney away, then she convinced some important people that Henry was incompetent. That's what it takes. Oops, Mom's sexual consent wasn't the only one invalid. Dad's wasn't either.




Marini -> RE: Is Henry Rayhons guilty of raping wife with Alzheimers? (4/18/2015 7:59:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

Hubbie Henry could've been a rocket scientist, as a young man, what of it? That was then, this is now. Now, moralizing over guilt and punishments, is inappropriate, because Henry is apparently not all-there either.
Look, if the daughter (or step-daughter) was able to restle power-of-attorney away, then she convinced some important people that Henry was incompetent. That's what it takes. Oops, Mom's sexual consent wasn't the only one invalid. Dad's wasn't either.


Great point!



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