RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S.

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:01:16 PM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lucy I think I am the only one on these boards who does... You tell me why would not Obama inform congress? How about it... would you?

I understand your point but it is the wrong point... it should never have happened because congress should be informed and in agreement as to the particulars of the agreement before we even went into negotiations.

Fuck dumb ass... I could not care less about him... he is not important ... what is... a united front... or at least a well informed one. What good does it do to negotiate an agreement between the minority of our government? I'll tell you Iran understands this... no wonder they are in no hurry for an agreement... they understand it would be useless.

Butch

no
no you still dont get it...sorry dear

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Post #: 21

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:04:02 PM

kdsub

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quote:

we just saw 47 members of Congress put their collective feet in their mouth by a public letter....imagine giving all of these folks input as you negotiate.

My point... if they have been apprised of the particulars of what Obama was willing to agree to or demand... then this would have been hashed out before it came to that embarrassing point.

Butch

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:04:40 PM

slvemike4u

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I'm confused how anyone could think that negotiations on this level could be done transparently.
It just might be the most ridiculous proposition I have heard since my ex-wife told me to trust her

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Post #: 23

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:06:13 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

we just saw 47 members of Congress put their collective feet in their mouth by a public letter....imagine giving all of these folks input as you negotiate.

My point... if they have been apprised of the particulars of what Obama was willing to agree to or demand... then this would have been hashed out before it came to that embarrassing point.

Butch

Bullshit,they might just have well decided to go public with their concerns and accomplished the exact thing the letter was designed to do....namely torpedo the process altogether.

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Post #: 24

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:06:51 PM

kdsub

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Well you think I don't...but I will bet more than a few think I do... It is dumb to blame a foreign government for our dumb ass failings and poor governance.

Butch

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Post #: 25

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:09:49 PM

kdsub

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Well mike if a consensus could not have been come to then we should NOT negotiate until we agree what we want.... Obama is supposed to represent the people of the US not the Democratic party only people of the US. AND I may add the minority party of the US.

Butch

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Post #: 26

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:13:05 PM

slvemike4u

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Butch the power to negotiate foreign treaties and alliances is vested with the executive,once negotiated the agreement is than and only than put forth for ratification by Congress
There's a reason for this ,a very good reason.You can't negotiate unless you present the other side with a voice of consensus.
When was the last time you noticed Congress talking about any issue with any sense of consensus ?

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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Post #: 27

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:15:52 PM

KenDckey

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It is of no surprise that Isreal spied on these talks. And there seems to be a double standard at play. We spy on everyone. We got caught spying even on the FRG Chancellor and other allies. Time for us to just let it go.

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Post #: 28

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:16:30 PM

kdsub

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Mike that is simply not true... ratification is not even required... but when it is done it is a given because there was agreement before the negotiated was finalized.

Butch

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 8:20:58 PM

slvemike4u

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So President Obama should go to this congress and seek agreement with them before entering into talks with a foreign power.
Which "negotiation" would be more civil.....lol

A recipe designed to guarantee that nothing got accomplished

Sorry Butch,but that's just crazy

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Post #: 30

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 9:53:12 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why then could not Obama be open... he should have kept congress informed... why the hell should the congress need to get information from Israel? Hell why should not we all be informed as the negotiations proceed? It seems to me this would add support.

Butch

You know of course that such public knowledge in either case would be completely unprecedented and nothing at all like what has been done in diplomatic negotiations as far as I know...in US history.

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Post #: 31

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 9:57:11 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lucy I think I am the only one on these boards who does... You tell me why would not Obama inform congress? How about it... would you?

I understand your point but it is the wrong point... it should never have happened because congress should be informed and in agreement as to the particulars of the agreement before we even went into negotiations.

Fuck dumb ass... I could not care less about him... he is not important ... what is... a united front... or at least a well informed one. What good does it do to negotiate an agreement between the minority of our government? I'll tell you Iran understands this... no wonder they are in no hurry for an agreement... they understand it would be useless.

Butch

But man you are beginning to sound as if the whole thing should be on CNN or better yet...Fox news.
If such negotiations were on any public display, there goes the whole thing. Might as well start firing away.

The Iranians wouldn't stop heading for the bomb and Israel would soon be sending in the jets.

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 10:01:53 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike you are not making sense... we don't hide information from the American people... if it is delicate we certainly don't hide it for the American people representatives.

Not only that there should be nothing delicate...why...Is there something in the agreement that the American people would be against?... Well if there is then we should not have an agreement.

Butch

Where have you been ? The govt. withholds just this kind of shit all of the time and has for all time. As far as I know, even Jefferson never told the world he was going after Tripoli. Even after the fact, the world wanted know what the fuck was up with us.

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 10:04:18 PM

slvemike4u

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It amazes me that this isn't self evident to him....flabbergasted comes to mind

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Post #: 34

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 10:04:52 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

we just saw 47 members of Congress put their collective feet in their mouth by a public letter....imagine giving all of these folks input as you negotiate.

My point... if they have been apprised of the particulars of what Obama was willing to agree to or demand... then this would have been hashed out before it came to that embarrassing point.

Butch

Not true at all. Every little tid bit of any concession at all toward Iran even enrichment ten years out and a shorter than 1 year breakout prohibition...and the right was all over it already.

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Post #: 35

RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/24/2015 10:53:39 PM

kdsub

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So you are ok with Obama making a treaty that over half the nation may not agree with?... You are alright for him to use his presidential power to enter an agreement without consulting congress? I can just imagine your response if he were a Republican president.

I am beginning to believe there is some substance to the republicans complaints about Obama using arbitrary power beyond good sense if not against the law. He is making too many mistake and under his leadership we are looking like fools.

You and mr Rodgers are full of crap if you think all past treaty's were made without the input of congress... That is all I would ask... That or we can continue to look like idiots to the rest of the world.

I am not defending Netanyahu's actions or the republicans in congress... I am saying Obama deserves some of the blame for not consulting congress as a whole and keeping them informed...common sense stuff to me.

Butch

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/25/2015 11:51:12 AM

sloguy02246

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FR

Why would any negotiation details be shared with a Congress (both parties, mind you) that has repeatedly demonstrated that its first concern is scoring political points to assist in a senator's or representative's reelection?

I have been directly involved with labor contract negotiations (yes, actually sitting at the bargaining table) for over 35 years and the first "ground rule" both sides always agreed to before actually beginning the process was that no information about the ongoing process would be shared outside the room so as not to end up "negotiating through the press."
(From time to time, both parties would issue a benign, joint statement about the current state of the negotiations.)

If ongoing details of the Iran negotiations were disseminated in a regular briefing, the result would be continuous second-guessing by both parties through the media and political posturing by those who see an opportunity to preen before their constituency.

With my background in negotiations, I don't see this situation as a transparency issue, but as a normal part of the negotiation process.
Successful negotiations always require a certain level of confidentiality and this situation is a virtual poster child in that regard.

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/25/2015 11:53:31 AM

mnottertail

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Negotiations between governments have never been revealed to congress beforehand, they are fucking stupid, and talk into microphones. Might as well tell the Gotti crime family.

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RE: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S. - 3/25/2015 12:02:16 PM

thishereboi