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People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 11:03:35 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Over the years we here in America were and are often demeaned by our European friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster. I always thought it was deserved to a certain extent but not to the degree our accusers would like us to believe. There is no denying our reactions and polls showed that as many as 43 percent of Americans held some resentment to Muslims over 9/11. There were even two revenge murders sad but so. But given the loss of 3,000 innocent lives I always thought the citizens of the US were very forgiving and tolerant.

I think now with the recent terrorist killings in Europe and the backlash reaction to these events our detractors will understand they will no longer be able to look down their noses at us. People are people and will most often react in the same way to this type of tragedy. In fact in many respects the European reaction is even stronger than the one in the US. At least we did not cut the heads from pigs and throw them in Mosques… we didn't throw grenades through the doors… But we did firebomb two mosques and assault people only because they looked like Muslims.

It is a shame that we even think about who reacts better to terror..or have to…but we do like to put each other down on these forums. It is necessary to point out these unfair crimes of revenge… but not to accuse one nation or the other of being more or less tolerant… We are all the same…like it or not.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/14/2015 11:04:54 AM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing
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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 11:32:57 AM   
stef


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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 11:40:34 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		... yes... It is good to know Europeans are just as big assholes as the rest of us....even bigger. Now we can all equally rejoice in our bigotry without guilt and shame.... ahhhh it feels good!

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/14/2015 11:42:16 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 12:35:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		lol... we are less than perfect are we not... will you are... i mean i am.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 12:39:49 PM   
Moderator3


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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 12:59:54 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		Lunatic fringe Muslims get lunatic fringe responses from frightened people fearing they are now targeted. Those who are targeted best protect themself by understanding the actual threats and violent people likely to attack. Holding whole cities, countries or religions responsible is as irrational as seeing all USA citizens as responsible for the very poorly reported or understood operationally secret campaigns against Al Qaeda and others in their refuges and operational centers.
Hatred and violence is a most typical human response to deep fear. To the extent it miss understands the actual threat, the reaction elicits exactly the same response from previously uninvolved people. Collateral Damage is as bad as misunderstanding the threat as far as recruiting new enemies, a problem more for groups and organizations seeking peace than those seeing the necessity of a violent overthrow of the entire world system and it's replacement with Their organization and goals. Why violent radicals have always been difficult to counter. Repressive dictatorships have been the common response, usually a worse outcome than the problem?

It's complicating the Western general population response to Jihadist terrorism to no end that the 'free press' in the West has been so lax in reporting the mainstream Islamic condemnation of murder and terror. Faux News being the poster child? BBC does considerably better. Ideas that radicalized Jihadists actually listen to mainstream Imans and teachers is laughable? Condemning the average Muslim citizen for the acts of violent radicals assumes any common citizen has Any control over mass historical movements, a standard we as citizens of Imperial America had hope isn't a universal judgment?

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 1/14/2015 1:05:59 PM >

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 1:18:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No problem...below is what PeonForher posted...a slight change...no big deal.

"Over the years we here in Europe were and are often demeaned by our American friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster."

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 1:45:13 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

... yes... It is good to know Europeans are just as big assholes as the rest of us....even bigger.

This was never in doubt.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 2:05:16 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Pfft.

People *are* at root the same everywhere - this I take for granted.

However, what I've also come to realise is that those people who think most in terms of national hierarchies will look down on the people of most other nations - but also think that those of certain nations just must look down on them, too. They project their national-inferiority/superiority worldview onto everybody else, basically. Thus, roughly: "I think I'm of the superior nation. Wait, I bet he's the 'flip side' and thinks that *he's* of the superior nation. Well, he's wrong! Wrong!"

And ... it's got to be said, those who've most complained about non-Americans looking down on Americans have always been Americans of, shall we say, a certain political hue.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 2:06:52 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No problem...below is what PeonForher posted...a slight change...no big deal.

"Over the years we here in Europe were and are often demeaned by our American friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster."

Butch


Cheers Butch. It did seem necessary to change just that one word in your OP for accuracy's sake.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 3:51:00 PM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Pfft.

People *are* at root the same everywhere - this I take for granted.

However, what I've also come to realise is that those people who think most in terms of national hierarchies will look down on the people of most other nations - but also think that those of certain nations just must look down on them, too. They project their national-inferiority/superiority worldview onto everybody else, basically. Thus, roughly: "I think I'm of the superior nation. Wait, I bet he's the 'flip side' and thinks that *he's* of the superior nation. Well, he's wrong! Wrong!"

And ... it's got to be said, those who've most complained about non-Americans looking down on Americans have always been Americans of, shall we say, a certain political hue.


*applauds*

Superiority and inferiority are two sides of the same coin. If people (general) accept that humans are just human, no better and no worse, then it's so much easier to get along.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 4:10:25 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No problem...below is what PeonForher posted...a slight change...no big deal.

"Over the years we here in Europe were and are often demeaned by our American friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster."

Butch


Cheers Butch. It did seem necessary to change just that one word in your OP for accuracy's sake.


Oh - actually - that isn't what I wrote, Butch. You crafty old fox, you. In fact I only changed one word, not two, thus: "Over the years we here in America were and are often demeaned by our American friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster."


That is, Americans have demeaned other Americans far more than have Europeans demeaned Americans.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/14/2015 4:16:52 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Oh... my eyes are getting old

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/15/2015 3:38:21 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		People are the same most everywhere .... hmmm. FWIW, I prefer 'Most people are pretty much the same the world over'. Most of us want none of the aggression, war, greed, conflict and destructive policies that our Govts and ruling economic cliques drag our various countries into. Yet somehow those Govts and economic cliques keep getting us involved in their power/financial manoeuvres and that seems to hold whether our Govts are nominally democratic or otherwise. It's rare that common people declare war on each other.

There are exceptions. Some people are convinced that their country/race/ideology/{insert criterion/criteria of your choice here} is far superior to all other {insert criterion/criteria of your choice here}. And of course, if they or their {insert criterion/criteria of your choice here} are so superior, then others' {insert criterion/criteria of your choice here} must be inferior. Some rationalise this by claiming that their {insert criterion/criteria of your choice here} is chosen by their God/G-d/Allah/{insert deity of your choice} as the superior {insert criterion/criteria of your choice here}. Or that destiny has bestowed upon them a special role in world affairs and an obligation to spread/impose their {insert criterion/criteria of your choice here} on all others.

The exceptions - those who believe that by some measure they are exceptional, that their interests are primary and all others are secondary or worse - are the ones who cause all the trouble. They can be found in every country. If the rest of us want to live without war and conflict, then it's up to us to keep the exceptionalists in their place.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/15/2015 3:43:16 AM >

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/15/2015 12:47:42 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Over the years we here in America were and are often demeaned by our European friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster. I always thought it was deserved to a certain extent but not to the degree our accusers would like us to believe. There is no denying our reactions and polls showed that as many as 43 percent of Americans held some resentment to Muslims over 9/11. There were even two revenge murders sad but so. But given the loss of 3,000 innocent lives I always thought the citizens of the US were very forgiving and tolerant.

I think now with the recent terrorist killings in Europe and the backlash reaction to these events our detractors will understand they will no longer be able to look down their noses at us. People are people and will most often react in the same way to this type of tragedy. In fact in many respects the European reaction is even stronger than the one in the US. At least we did not cut the heads from pigs and throw them in Mosques… we didn't throw grenades through the doors… But we did firebomb two mosques and assault people only because they looked like Muslims.

It is a shame that we even think about who reacts better to terror..or have to…but we do like to put each other down on these forums. It is necessary to point out these unfair crimes of revenge… but not to accuse one nation or the other of being more or less tolerant… We are all the same…like it or not.

Butch


I don't think humans are really that much different from each other, at least as far as the human species is concerned.

I think nations might differ from each other based on their experiences and their history and understanding of the world permeates their national perspective and influences how they might react to terror.

Some of it is kind of revealing, as you mentioned the attack where some guy was upset after 9/11 and attacked a Sikh just because he was wearing a turban. It was a complete tragedy and heinous crime based on ignorant, blind anger. At the time, I actually thought it was going to get even worse, with so many people running around on a lean mixture anyway.

My sense is that the Europeans have had more long-term experience with terrorism, as well as more historical experience with the Muslim world. I don't know if that makes their reaction any better or worse than ours.


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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/15/2015 5:35:54 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

My sense is that the Europeans have had more long-term experience with terrorism, as well as more historical experience with the Muslim world. I don't know if that makes their reaction any better or worse than ours.


So far it seems that overall they are not handling it as good as we did... Now the French are arresting people for exercising their free speech.. Yes what they are saying is abhorrent but they have a right to say it.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/15/2015 5:38:22 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Over the years we here in America were and are often demeaned by our European friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster. I always thought it was deserved to a certain extent but not to the degree our accusers would like us to believe. There is no denying our reactions and polls showed that as many as 43 percent of Americans held some resentment to Muslims over 9/11. There were even two revenge murders sad but so. But given the loss of 3,000 innocent lives I always thought the citizens of the US were very forgiving and tolerant.

I think now with the recent terrorist killings in Europe and the backlash reaction to these events our detractors will understand they will no longer be able to look down their noses at us. People are people and will most often react in the same way to this type of tragedy. In fact in many respects the European reaction is even stronger than the one in the US. At least we did not cut the heads from pigs and throw them in Mosques… we didn't throw grenades through the doors… But we did firebomb two mosques and assault people only because they looked like Muslims.

It is a shame that we even think about who reacts better to terror..or have to…but we do like to put each other down on these forums. It is necessary to point out these unfair crimes of revenge… but not to accuse one nation or the other of being more or less tolerant… We are all the same…like it or not.

Butch


Fucking laughable, given the list of terrorist attacks in Europe since 9/11. You also need to know not only Americans but Europeans and muslims also died in the twin towers. But if you really wish to get into the issue, those who threw pigs heads into a Blackpool Mosque after Lee Rigbys murder were jailed under our hate laws. The very same religious hate laws decried by so many of you in the US. Those who have done the same in France will also face jail time when they are caught.

After the 7/7 bomings in London, which led to the loss of 57 lives and some 700 people being injured, I dont recall any revenge attacks. At least nothing like events after Lee Rigbys murder.

The far right is on the rise in Europe, So I am not overly surprised by the events in France.

Your Government were not overly tolerant with the quick decision to blame Iraq for aiding with 9/11 even with almost everyone in the know, aware it wasnt true. Tony Blair, arsehole that he is, even decided to drag us along.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/16/2015 1:57:17 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Over the years we here in America were and are often demeaned by our European friends on Collarspace over our backlash reaction to Muslims because of the 9/11 disaster.



Well, the events in New York and Boston were absolutely shocking, disgusting events.

What we don't know, I'm talking about England not Europe, is how the average American reacted - how would we?

The only representative we got to hear much from was George Bush, and it was difficult to take his "evil-doers" speeches seriously. That said, Tony Blair wasn't taken seriously either with his: "to the mountains of x, and in the valleys of y, these people are our cause too". I don't think any of this was an anti-American thing, more that the average bloke in the street can take only so much bollocks.

Perhaps there is one difference in that in the aftermatch of the London bombing, there wasn't a rush to invade a country, even among our politicians. Only you can tell me what the feeling was among average Americans after the New York attack.

We tend to pride ourselves on being tolerant and reasonable, not just talk it but act upon these two principles. Whether or not Americans do I have no idea.

Perhaps there is a difference going right back to the formation of the United States, whereupon a strong defence was seen as paramount. This doesn't seem to have been taken on board by later Americans as in the run up to WW1 your standing army was as small as ours. So who knows.

Ultimately, it depends on how you see yourselves as people, and which values are most important to you. Clearly defence and tolerance sometimes come into conflict.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/16/2015 2:25:03 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

My sense is that the Europeans have had more long-term experience with terrorism, as well as more historical experience with the Muslim world. I don't know if that makes their reaction any better or worse than ours.


So far it seems that overall they are not handling it as good as we did... Now the French are arresting people for exercising their free speech.. Yes what they are saying is abhorrent but they have a right to say it.

Butch



Oh, and I would disagree with the assertion that 'people are the same everywhere' and would agree with Zonie's post.

One example is the French banning the burka. There is minimal support for this in England. Clearly, there is something in our culture which renders us different to the French.

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RE: People are the same most everywhere - 1/16/2015 2:28:47 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There were even two revenge murders sad but so.



What do you have over there? 300,000 million people or so?

There's bound to be a few idiots walking the streets.

I don't think anyone was killed here in the wake of the London bombing, but a few mosques were attacked.

I don't think anyone can expect everyone in a country to be sensible; it's how the vast majority reacts that is telling of a nation's culture.



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