RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:03:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Interesting that they weren't "crushing these other places" for decades until the advent of "trickle down economics," exactly when the dual economy started.


[sm=agree.gif]
THAT'S IT!!
This started at least 30 years ago {Reagan Era}, and has become progressively worse.
It started full throttle under Reagan, and has just snow balled over the last 30 years.

Hell, I am old enough to remember a lot of the union busting and Reagan's all out war on labor.
You can't cover up what many of us are old enough to remember.
Ronald Reagan had a lot to do with spear heading/accelerating the economic decline in our country.
To not admit that MANY of the issues facing this country, did not begin/or were not accelerated
during the Reagan administration is being ignorant or disingenuous at best.

Now we have plenty of that on here!
lol


As if Europe is really to our right

Reagan was here, prosperity is here...

The Euros went the exactly the opposite way








Musicmystery -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:05:18 PM)

She's saying it's to our left.



Sanity -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:06:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm a little old for the playground "Nuh-uh, you are!"


If thats true, thats a part of you we rarely if ever see here



joether -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:07:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Compared to Europe and Japan -- we are doing well. Increased demand and motivated workers can't help but HELP!

Sweetie, America has had a duel economy for some time now.
Newsflash: The rich are getting richer, and the majority of people are getting kicked in the ass.

CNN Money/Nov. 2014/America's Dual Economy

1. Wages are NOT growing.
2. MILLIONS of people can NOT find full time jobs.
3. Inequality is growing.


I enjoy your hopeful demeanor, and I think you mean well but.....
Do you get out and about much?
Seriously


Wages are growing. They are just not growing fast enough for the middle and poor classes of America. For the rich, the wages are growing by leaps and bounds! I think the President and Democrats have done quite a bit to encourage wages to improve in America. Last I checked, they were the ones championing increasing the national minimuim wage to nearly twice its current value. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 was designed to shore the nation's economy from spiralling the nation into a second 'Great Depression'; seems to have worked. Along with that is a few hundred smaller actions the President and Democrats have performed to help Americans out. Thanks to the ACA, Americans are not being beaten to death with medical bills quite as much as they were in 2009.

And who has been against all these things? The Republican/Tea Party and their thralls....

Millions of people can find jobs. That those jobs are part time and/or under paying is a problem. That Americans are being forced to work two or three jobs to help make ends meet, is worrisome. I've seen many tens of thousands walk through the local pantries in my area as a sign that the 'Job Creators' in the nation are still earning their 'F' in 'Job Creation Duties'. Imagine if the Republican/Tea Party were to go after those 'Job Creators' as often as they slam the President? Oh wait, they cant, their masters would get upset.....

Inequality is a hard thing to measure. How do we determine inequality due to social issues compared to healthcare and/or financial issues? Is there some standard of 'how we determine equality' that is not known? There are many laws to protect against inequality. There are many systems to protect against inequality. But it takes a people of noble thought and purpose, to protect those that are weaker and less fortunate with those laws and systems.

Everyday, those laws and systems are undermined by one set of Americans: The Republican/Tea Party and their lackeys.

Want a better America? Vote! When less people vote in a given election, Tyranny wins. When more people vote, America wins. When we demand less of our elected officials and allow 'less than scrupulous' people to control things from behind closed doors and curtains; America as a whole suffers. When we allow politicians more vacation time and less 'being competitive' for the next election; America suffers as a whole. What good has the concept of 'Gerrymandering' down for us Americans....NOT...part of the 1%?



Sanity -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:09:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

She's saying it's to our left.



That was the gist of my post before you trolled all over it

And we are doing much better, which that was cloudboys point



Marini -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:09:51 PM)

blah blah blah

I stand by the facts I stated:

1. Wages for MOST American workers are not growing.
2. Millions of people can not find full time jobs.
3. Inequality is growing.

You can rattle on forever, I am hardly swayed.
You keep listening to the voices in your head, and I will keep looking at REALITY.
Because only you, and a fair number of your comrades on here share this view.

NOTHING I see around me, on the news, on the streets, anywhere aligns with what you have typed.

IF what you are saying is true, please share your COLD HARD statisical data that backs up your statements.



Musicmystery -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:10:40 PM)

If by "trolled" you mean "responded."

And if that was your gist, what's the problem?



Musicmystery -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:11:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

blah blah blah

I stand by the facts I stated:

1. Wages for MOST American workers are not growing.
2. Millions of people can not find full time jobs.
3. Inequality is growing.

You can rattle on forever, I am hardly swayed.
You keep listening to the voices in your head, and I will keep looking at REALITY.

Folks, she's telling you the truth -- AND it's true the economy is growing. THAT'S THE POINT of the Two Economies -- one is growing, one is stagnant.



Sanity -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:13:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

blah blah blah

I stand by the facts I stated:

1. Wages for MOST American workers are not growing.
2. Millions of people can not find full time jobs.
3. Inequality is growing.

You can rattle on forever, I am hardly swayed.
You keep listening to the voices in your head, and I will keep looking at REALITY.

Folks, she's telling you the truth -- AND it's true the economy is growing. THAT'S THE POINT of the Two Economies -- one is growing, one is stagnant.


Despite big government / big business leftist cronies holding power for several years?

Shocking.

When Obama reads about this in the newspaper just like everyone else I bet he's gonna be really pissed...








cloudboy -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:14:12 PM)

That is a separate issue from Immigration Reform -- income inequality. Am I optimistic that immigration and reform helps the USA -- YES. Is the USA doing better than Japan and Europe in terms of economic growth and unemployment figures -- YES. Does the USA integrate and Americanize new arrivals better than Europe and other countries -- YES.

Where I see progress -- I see no reason to point to other, unrelated problems to sully my feelings. There is no no magic bullet or global solution to all US economic issues -- but positive steps remain positive steps.

Families that have been Americanized -- who are primed to contribute to the USA -- keeping them together, giving them status, letting them live outside of the shadows --- and doing something about the outdated 1996 Immigration law (18 years old) is WIN-WIN-WIN.

Thank God for Obama here and a Democratic President.

For contrast, over 120 Republicans voted to allow the USA to default on its Debt Obligations. (Think about that &%$^^&$??!!. These are the same assholes who have stonewalled immigration reform.) These clowns would gladly drive the USA off a cliff.



Marini -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:21:45 PM)

If you can logically explain and convince me that giving amnesty to 5-50 million mainly marginally educated and low skilled immigrants is going to significantly IMPROVE our nation's economy, I will get in my car and drive the 30 minutes to down Washington D.C. and continuously protest indefinetly as much as I can manage.

I will rally as many people as I can--and you will see me on CNN.

There is that Black woman out here again, man she is steadfast.
She has more people with her this time.




VeryMercurial -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:37:45 PM)

nm



Musicmystery -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:40:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

blah blah blah

I stand by the facts I stated:

1. Wages for MOST American workers are not growing.
2. Millions of people can not find full time jobs.
3. Inequality is growing.

You can rattle on forever, I am hardly swayed.
You keep listening to the voices in your head, and I will keep looking at REALITY.

Folks, she's telling you the truth -- AND it's true the economy is growing. THAT'S THE POINT of the Two Economies -- one is growing, one is stagnant.


Despite big government / big business leftist cronies holding power for several years?

Shocking.

When Obama reads about this in the newspaper just like everyone else I bet he's gonna be really pissed...


Why? There's nothing new or shocking about it. All old news.

Where have you been?



Sanity -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 12:57:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

blah blah blah

I stand by the facts I stated:

1. Wages for MOST American workers are not growing.
2. Millions of people can not find full time jobs.
3. Inequality is growing.

You can rattle on forever, I am hardly swayed.
You keep listening to the voices in your head, and I will keep looking at REALITY.

Folks, she's telling you the truth -- AND it's true the economy is growing. THAT'S THE POINT of the Two Economies -- one is growing, one is stagnant.


Despite big government / big business leftist cronies holding power for several years?

Shocking.

When Obama reads about this in the newspaper just like everyone else I bet he's gonna be really pissed...


Why? There's nothing new or shocking about it. All old news.

Where have you been?


Blatant, obvious sarcasm totally escapes you now?

What is happening to you?



Musicmystery -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 1:16:15 PM)

So the information is repeated in a sarcastic tone, as if a counter-argument, but with no dissenting data.

Sounds like a confirmation.



cloudboy -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 6:18:43 PM)

It took me a while to figure out where you are coming from. Everything you say below in your post from a different time --- has simply not been true in the HISTORY OF THE USA. What has been true is folks thinking like you do (below) about the latest wave of immigrants: they'll depress wages, they'll become a public burden, they're uneducated, etc.

"Irish Need not Apply" etc.

This is really unsupported by evidence. Immigrants have never depressed the US economy, EVER.

------

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3129824/mpage_1/key_purely%252Cfiscal%252Cpoint%252Cview%252Cmain%252Cproblem%252Clegalization/tm.htm#3130608



Marini -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/22/2014 6:38:48 PM)

cloudboy, you still have not figured out where I am coming from.
I have the ability to consider this situation from a couple of different angles.
The post you linked is 4 years old, I have actually changed a bit in 4 years, have you?

I can tell you are a lawyer, instead of giving a detailed and direct response you are trying to throw shade on me/or point fingers/ insult/ label and/or "judge" me/ or whatever.
**Aren't you an immigration lawyer?**

Then you start the same old judgemental rhetoric, that becomes rather boring.
I asked real questions, and instead of giving a detailed response, you throw up a thread that is 4 years old, and spew out some canned response.

I am starting to become disdainful of a certain type of liberal, that thinks they are superior to others.
They come off as being morally superior, when in reality they are doing little to nothing to REALLY help significantly change the lives of the struggling poor and disenfranchised.


MILLIONS of American citizens are CURRENTLY struggling, underemployed, not able to find full time employement, etc.
Instead of specifically telling me how giving amnesty to 25 million immigrants, will help the MILLIONS of Americans that are struggling, you start pointing your liberal finger at me.

I am a Black woman, who happens to be an American citizen, and I am allowed to have an opinion.
YOU, are not morally superior to me, and you can not make me feel bad about my opinions.

So you, mr. morally superior liberal who is not doing anything to remotely help the American citizens that I am talking about, can go tip toe through the tulips of {what you think} is your morally superior mind.

It has taken me a while, to figure you and your type out.
Well you have given me nothing to protest about.
Have a great evening.



thishereboi -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/23/2014 4:49:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

If you can logically explain and convince me that giving amnesty to 5-50 million mainly marginally educated and low skilled immigrants is going to significantly IMPROVE our nation's economy, I will get in my car and drive the 30 minutes to down Washington D.C. and continuously protest indefinetly as much as I can manage.

I will rally as many people as I can--and you will see me on CNN.

There is that Black woman out here again, man she is steadfast.
She has more people with her this time.




Not only improve the economy but according to him it's going to increase jobs. Of course everytime I ask how it's going to increase jobs, he ignores me. But he said it's true so I guess we are supposed to just take his word on it.



cloudboy -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/23/2014 9:37:10 AM)


Americans have always worried about immigration and new immigrants pushing them out and depressing the the economy here. I'll repeat, despite waves and waves of new immigrants --- it has never happened in our history.

Holding another group down is not a solution for the USA to move forward. It is better to unleash a group's enormous potential. Catholics, evangelicals, the Chamber of Commerce, Democrats, and most other pragmatic groups side with the reasoning of the CATO Institute on the matter.

---

The overriding impact of immigrants is to strengthen and enrich American culture, increase the total output of the economy, and raise the standard of living of American citizens. Immigrants are advantageous to the United States for several reasons: (1) Since they are willing to take a chance in a new land, they are self-selected on the basis on motivation, risk taking, work ethic, and other attributes beneficial to a nation. (2) They tend to come to the United States during their prime working years (the average age is 28), and they contribute to the workforce and make huge net contributions to old-age entitlement programs, primarily Social Security. (3) Immigrants tend to fill niches in the labor market where demand is highest relative to supply, complementing rather than directly competing with American workers. (4) Many immigrants arrive with extremely high skill levels, and virtually all, regardless of skill level, bring a strong desire to work. (5) Their children tend to reach high levels of achievement in American schools and in society at large.

http://www.cato.org/research/immigration




Marini -> RE: GO-Bama (Go Obama!) (11/24/2014 6:37:35 PM)

Are you seriously trying to "sway" me by regurgitating "talking points" from the CATO institute???
lol, the CATO institute?
CATO being the organization founded by Charles Koch?

seriously?
Don't bother to attempt to sway me, let's agree to disagree.
It really okay, to have a different point of view.

Peace



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