Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


MrRodgers -> Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 1:27:11 PM)

I guess the state of gambling is fitting for winning this lottery for $500 mill. in yet more corporate welfare.

Sure is nice to know taxpayers aren't rich enough for food stamps and housing assist. but we rich enough to give a for-profit car co.

that kind of money. Didn't know Nevada could afford to buy that many jobs. You know, those jobs the marketplace is supposed to create ?

HERE




tj444 -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 1:49:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I guess the state of gambling is fitting for winning this lottery for $500 mill. in yet more corporate welfare.

Sure is nice to know taxpayers aren't rich enough for food stamps and housing assist. but we rich enough to give a for-profit car co.

that kind of money. Didn't know Nevada could afford to buy that many jobs. You know, those jobs the marketplace is supposed to create ?

HERE

NV is trying to diversify.. let's face it.. who wants to go to Vegas (yawn) to gamble when they can go to Macau..

Macau's gambling industry is now 7 times bigger than Vegas
http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/06/news/macau-casino-gambling/




DomKen -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 1:57:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I guess the state of gambling is fitting for winning this lottery for $500 mill. in yet more corporate welfare.

Sure is nice to know taxpayers aren't rich enough for food stamps and housing assist. but we rich enough to give a for-profit car co.

that kind of money. Didn't know Nevada could afford to buy that many jobs. You know, those jobs the marketplace is supposed to create ?

HERE

Getting Tesla means good paying jobs and if Musk actually succeeds it means a lot of them. If it cost my state $500 million to get that $5 billion+ that seems like a good investment to me.




Musicmystery -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 2:53:07 PM)

I'm at a loss to understand your problem with this.




DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 5:12:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm at a loss to understand your problem with this.

This is capital investment by government as an economy builder, pure and simple. The only question is will Nevada get enough new payroll and enough new tax revenue to be worth the investment? If so, then this is entirely proper. Of course, the Tea Radicals won't see it that way - something to ponder come next election.
[sm=hissyfit.gif]




Sanity -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 5:18:31 PM)

quote:

Nevada has been one of several states, including Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California, in negotiations with Tesla, which recently broke ground at the Reno Tahoe Industrial Center even though the company said it was still evaluating other locations and negotiating incentives with other states.


What, No Detroit?

I can't imagine why the city that unions built isn't on the list...








DomKen -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 5:45:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

Nevada has been one of several states, including Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California, in negotiations with Tesla, which recently broke ground at the Reno Tahoe Industrial Center even though the company said it was still evaluating other locations and negotiating incentives with other states.


What, No Detroit?

I can't imagine why the city that unions built isn't on the list...

No, lithium source and Detroit would be a long way from the Bay area where Tesla assembles the cars. Did you even read the article?




thishereboi -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 6:25:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm at a loss to understand your problem with this.



Good to know I am not the only one.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/4/2014 10:14:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm at a loss to understand your problem with this.



Good to know I am not the only one.
The only answer I can come up with is that in his eyes, it is corporate welfare.

And yet, he states right out that there will be new jobs...bought or not...that give people work to do and be paid for and then, taxed upon those wages




thishereboi -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/5/2014 6:36:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm at a loss to understand your problem with this.



Good to know I am not the only one.
The only answer I can come up with is that in his eyes, it is corporate welfare.

And yet, he states right out that there will be new jobs...bought or not...that give people work to do and be paid for and then, taxed upon those wages




Could be but I took another look at the article and found this...

Gov. Brian Sandoval plans a Thursday afternoon news conference in the state Capitol to reveal details of the proposed Gigafactory deal, according to a source familiar with the announcement. Tesla representatives and state lawmakers also will be present."

and apparently Sandoval is a republican. That right there is enough for some of the posters on this forum to be against anything he does.




joether -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/5/2014 3:52:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I guess the state of gambling is fitting for winning this lottery for $500 mill. in yet more corporate welfare.

Sure is nice to know taxpayers aren't rich enough for food stamps and housing assist. but we rich enough to give a for-profit car co.

that kind of money. Didn't know Nevada could afford to buy that many jobs. You know, those jobs the marketplace is supposed to create ?

HERE


If this is all 'straight up and legit' then...

Nevada is gambling this infusion of funding will bring in much more than $500,000,000 in tax revenue. How? That the company pays taxes, employs people whom pay taxes, and 'down stream jobs' are created and ALSO, pay taxes. Its not really much different from the President Obama bill, 'American Recovery and Reinvestment Act' of 2009 (on a state level, not national).

Of course things can backfire, as Curt Shilling found with Rhode Island a few years ago.




MrRodgers -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/5/2014 9:17:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm at a loss to understand your problem with this.

This is capital investment by government as an economy builder, pure and simple. The only question is will Nevada get enough new payroll and enough new tax revenue to be worth the investment? If so, then this is entirely proper. Of course, the Tea Radicals won't see it that way - something to ponder come next election.
[sm=hissyfit.gif]

Well there is no individual or corporate tax in Nevada so it won't help on that front.

This country did fine for about 150 years without the people paying taxes...to buy jobs and without any income tax. Maybe this is just OK in Nevada without those taxes but what about water, schools, police protection and the like ?

Seems all taxes now are a stream of cash flow for all kinds of squander and now as a means of extorting favors to land those jobs. The marketplace is to create jobs...not tax giveaways.




Sanity -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/5/2014 9:24:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Well there is no individual or corporate tax in Nevada so it won't help on that front.

This country did fine for about 150 years without the people paying taxes...to buy jobs and without any income tax. Maybe this is just OK in Nevada without those taxes but what about water, schools, police protection and the like ?

Seems all taxes now are a stream of cash flow for all kinds of squander and now as a means of extorting favors to land those jobs. The marketplace is to create jobs...not tax giveaways.


Politicians have learned to use the taxes to buy the votes of useful idiots and to build crony empires with their friends and associates






MrRodgers -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/6/2014 2:01:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Well there is no individual or corporate tax in Nevada so it won't help on that front.

This country did fine for about 150 years without the people paying taxes...to buy jobs and without any income tax. Maybe this is just OK in Nevada without those taxes but what about water, schools, police protection and the like ?

Seems all taxes now are a stream of cash flow for all kinds of squander and now as a means of extorting favors to land those jobs. The marketplace is to create jobs...not tax giveaways.


Politicians have learned to use the taxes to buy the votes of useful idiots and to build crony empires with their friends and associates


.....plus as has been stated, Reno had the lithium, is closer to the bay area for shipping. I'll add to that, the land is cheaper than in Vegas and the Reno economy better fits their costs and very likely the competitors also. These are factors that are what make up 'the marketplace.' Still they want their $500 mill. and from ALL of Nevada.

Yes, we always have to wonder just whose skids are being greased here.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/6/2014 4:15:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I'm at a loss to understand your problem with this.

This is capital investment by government as an economy builder, pure and simple. The only question is will Nevada get enough new payroll and enough new tax revenue to be worth the investment? If so, then this is entirely proper. Of course, the Tea Radicals won't see it that way - something to ponder come next election.
[sm=hissyfit.gif]

Well there is no individual or corporate tax in Nevada so it won't help on that front.
This country did fine for about 150 years without the people paying taxes...to buy jobs and without any income tax. Maybe this is just OK in Nevada without those taxes but what about water, schools, police protection and the like ?
Seems all taxes now are a stream of cash flow for all kinds of squander and now as a means of extorting favors to land those jobs. The marketplace is to create jobs...not tax giveaways.


In Ohio, schools are paid for mostly through property taxes, not income taxes. At least in my area (Toledo area), local schools are not run by the local or County governments, either. They do get State aid, so there is some amount of money coming from all Ohioans going to schools.

Local police and fire are also partially paid from property tax revenues.

Perhaps the revenue streams out of Nevada tourism are healthy enough for this investment? That actually ends up taxing tourists (which is a much larger piece of pie than just Nevadans) for the investment. Is that really all that terrible?




Musicmystery -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/6/2014 6:26:34 AM)

What's the mystery?

It's very lucrative project, so states were in fierce competition to lure the plant to their state. That's not "corporate welfare" -- that's a deliberate investment by the states. You might fairly question the wisdom of the investment, but it's hardly a bail-out.

Wherever it lands, Tesla's plant will solve a long-standing problem for electric cars -- how to make the batteries cost effective. And that will solve it not just for Tesla, but for every other company interested in building electric cars -- a win for consumers and for the environment, at least potentially. Further, making batteries on that scale will bring Tesla opportunities to make batteries effectively for a number of products -- cell phones, laptops, etc. -- putting downward pressure on the price of batteries across the market.

Sure, Tesla would have built the plant somewhere without incentives. But it's not hard to see why a state might vie for this much industry at home, and it's certainly not Tesla's fault for being open to the incentive.

But welfare? Come on. You've got a hard-on for anything corporate. Down boy.




cloudboy -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/6/2014 8:21:52 PM)

The OP is not exactly off his rocker:

A Times investigation has examined and tallied thousands of local incentives granted nationwide and has found that states, counties and cities are giving up more than $80 billion each year to companies. The beneficiaries come from virtually every corner of the corporate world, encompassing oil and coal conglomerates, technology and entertainment companies, banks and big-box retail chains.

The cost of the awards is certainly far higher. A full accounting, The Times discovered, is not possible because the incentives are granted by thousands of government agencies and officials, and many do not know the value of all their awards. Nor do they know if the money was worth it because they rarely track how many jobs are created. Even where officials do track incentives, they acknowledge that it is impossible to know whether the jobs would have been created without the aid.

“How can you even talk about rationalizing what you’re doing when you don’t even know what you’re doing?” said Timothy J. Bartik, a senior economist at the W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research in Kalamazoo, Mich.

The Times analyzed more than 150,000 awards and created a searchable database of incentive spending. The survey was supplemented by interviews with more than 100 officials in government and business organizations as well as corporate executives and consultants.

A portrait arises of mayors and governors who are desperate to create jobs, outmatched by multinational corporations and short on tools to fact-check what companies tell them. Many of the officials said they feared that companies would move jobs overseas if they did not get subsidies in the United States.

Over the years, corporations have increasingly exploited that fear, creating a high-stakes bazaar where they pit local officials against one another to get the most lucrative packages. States compete with other states, cities compete with surrounding suburbs, and even small towns have entered the race with the goal of defeating their neighbors.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/us/how-local-taxpayers-bankroll-corporations.html?pagewanted=all&module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar%2C%7B%221%22%3A%22RI%3A8%22%7D&_r=0




CreativeDominant -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/7/2014 8:45:14 AM)

So, what should be done...if anything...cloudboy? People bitch when corporations move corporate headquarters overseas to avoid high tax structures, they bitch if manufacturing moves overseas and creates jobs overseas rather than here. But, when government works through tax incentives to keep corporate headquarters and manufacturing and jobs here, people bitch.

Should companies just do the "patriotic thing"? You know...build factories, create jobs, and shut up about their taxes and just pay?




cloudboy -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/7/2014 9:10:04 AM)


Well the classic example is the NFL owner threatening to move his team to another city if a NEW STADIUM is not built. As long as states are competing with one another, businesses will be in the "I want subsidies game." Even the great liberal and critic Oliver Stone wanted subsidies to make his film. (That was kind of funny.)

What I got out of the NYT article is that the net gains to the citizens of a particular state are hard to pin down if even existent at all.

I can see why there are two sides to this issue, but unless the states somehow coalesce and bargain collectively (with some kind of set of rules) outsiders will pitch one state v. the other to seek incentives.




Musicmystery -> RE: Nevada wins the Corporate welfare contest (9/8/2014 3:09:02 PM)

The issue, though, it's evil corporations, but incompetent public officials blindly flailing about in Incentive Land.

Same with sports stadiums -- research shows the money does *not* come back . . . but does that make sports evil, or some cities foolish?




Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.03125