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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/14/2014 6:21:28 AM   
cloudboy


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One small tweak would be granting Washington DC statehood and two senators and apportioned house members.

Another tweak would be eliminating cloture rules in the Senate.

It is not in the US interest to have a small, extremist minority gunk up the nation's legislation.

The ten states with the highest population could also be apportioned one more Senator.

(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/14/2014 6:58:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
One small tweak would be granting Washington DC statehood and two senators and apportioned house members.
Another tweak would be eliminating cloture rules in the Senate.
It is not in the US interest to have a small, extremist minority gunk up the nation's legislation.
The ten states with the highest population could also be apportioned one more Senator.


Yeah, then all the states will have equal representation.

There are 50 States. There are 100 Senators. What part of the Senate's representing the State (not the citizens of the State) do you not get?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/14/2014 7:08:55 AM   
cloudboy


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I don't think the system works well, and I would change it. If you want gridlock, the system is well designed as is.

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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/14/2014 9:38:22 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I don't think the system works well, and I would change it. If you want gridlock, the system is well designed as is.


I can't help but notice that when we "spread democracy" we make sure not to spread our kind.

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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/14/2014 2:32:00 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I don't think the system works well, and I would change it. If you want gridlock, the system is well designed as is.

I can't help but notice that when we "spread democracy" we make sure not to spread our kind.


Maybe we shouldn't be spreading democracy. That's not the rules we play by. Maybe we should be spreading republicanism.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/14/2014 2:40:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		we dont actually play by the rules of either. and we spread horseshit, as it happens, nothing we would participate in.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/16/2014 12:55:09 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I say create an amendment that effectively outlaws gerrymandering. Anyone with me?

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/16/2014 2:10:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		I'd like to see a requirement that sets limits on perimeter relative to area.

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/16/2014 2:48:19 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Florida voters did that and the Florida legislature still gerrymandered.
http://ballotpedia.org/Florida_Congressional_District_Boundaries,_Amendment_6_(2010)

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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/16/2014 2:50:01 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		OK. I'd like to see a requirement that sets limits on perimeter relative to area that's enforced.

My district snakes across 11 counties. Eleven! Fucking ridiculous. There's no way to represent it. It's just a seat holder.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/16/2014 2:53:18 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/17/2014 5:48:35 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I say create an amendment that effectively outlaws gerrymandering. Anyone with me?


And, how would you effect that? In your opinion, what is the best way to prevent gerrymandering?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/17/2014 11:37:49 PM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I say create an amendment that effectively outlaws gerrymandering. Anyone with me?


And, how would you effect that? In your opinion, what is the best way to prevent gerrymandering?


That's the beauty of an amendment, I don't have to. Once gerrymandering is outlawed it falls to the individual states to devise plans that do not favor one or more groups of people at the expense of others. Many good court cases later, and we'll have some good laws flowing up to the top that most states employ.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Gerrymandering Florida Assholes - 7/18/2014 3:58:01 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I say create an amendment that effectively outlaws gerrymandering. Anyone with me?

And, how would you effect that? In your opinion, what is the best way to prevent gerrymandering?

That's the beauty of an amendment, I don't have to. Once gerrymandering is outlawed it falls to the individual states to devise plans that do not favor one or more groups of people at the expense of others. Many good court cases later, and we'll have some good laws flowing up to the top that most states employ.


So. in your opinion, what is the best way to prevent gerrymandering?

The SCOTUS said partisan gerrymandering is unConstitutional and can be challenged in court in 1986.

The problem, however, isn't making it legal, illegal, Constituional, or unConstitutional. It's in the standards by which the redistricting plans are judged. That is, how do we prevent gerrymandering, and how do we know when it's occurred?

http://www.propublica.org/article/is-partisan-gerrymandering-unconstitutional

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering_in_the_United_States#Remedies

We agree that gerrymandering shouldn't be allowed. You're calling for an amendment, but, it seems, the practice is already not allowed by the Constitution, making an amendment unnecessary. That being the case, we have to move on to the "how do we prevent it?" step.

California (as Heretic has stated) has a Citizen Commission. How do we know that Commission isn't partisan?

Do we allow redistricting to fall to a commission of citizens, elected State representatives, or both? What if we created a commission of elected State representatives of 8 members; 2 from each party from the State Senate and the State House; determined by the elected State representatives of that party? So, all the elected representatives that are Democrats determine which four Democrats come from the Senate and House and those that are Republican determine which four represent the Republican Party.

Even that won't prevent gerrymandering, as any third party will likely be redistricted out.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 53
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