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Zonie63 -> RE: Interesting Article (6/24/2014 8:37:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

http://news.yahoo.com/constitution-check-could-house-sue-president-refusing-carry-101605570--politics.html

Regardless of politics, this question is interesting, and the answer could make for quite a change in Federal Government functioning.


I'm not sure if it would be "quite a change," and I don't know of anything that would prohibit Congress from suing the President. But by the same token, would the Supreme Court be under obligation to entertain or hear such a lawsuit?

I find it interesting that a common complaint is about judges legislating from the bench, but now, it's almost like they have to become janitors to clean up all the mess of the other two branches.

Without making it a political issue, it's been my observation that every President has his own particular style, and while there are often disputes between the Executive and Legislative branches, they generally get resolved over time.

A lawsuit seems like a novel approach, but it's probably going to end up with the top leaders from both parties having to actually sit down and work out a deal - as they've done in the past and will do in the future. That's probably what the Court would tell them to do before wasting its time with a lawsuit. They'd tell them to settle out of court first, wouldn't they?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Interesting Article (6/24/2014 11:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
http://news.yahoo.com/constitution-check-could-house-sue-president-refusing-carry-101605570--politics.html
Regardless of politics, this question is interesting, and the answer could make for quite a change in Federal Government functioning.

I'm not sure if it would be "quite a change," and I don't know of anything that would prohibit Congress from suing the President. But by the same token, would the Supreme Court be under obligation to entertain or hear such a lawsuit?
I find it interesting that a common complaint is about judges legislating from the bench, but now, it's almost like they have to become janitors to clean up all the mess of the other two branches.
Without making it a political issue, it's been my observation that every President has his own particular style, and while there are often disputes between the Executive and Legislative branches, they generally get resolved over time.
A lawsuit seems like a novel approach, but it's probably going to end up with the top leaders from both parties having to actually sit down and work out a deal - as they've done in the past and will do in the future. That's probably what the Court would tell them to do before wasting its time with a lawsuit. They'd tell them to settle out of court first, wouldn't they?


The article mentioned:
    quote:

    It is perhaps tempting to think, as the commentary by columnist George Will suggests, that this is a problem that ought to be handed over to the courts: get them involved to enforce the lines of demarcation between what Congress does and what presidents are allowed to do.

    However, there is, and has long been, a constitutional barrier to the courts acting as an arbiter of inter-branch disputes between Congress and the White House. Its origin is in the Constitution’s Article III, and its meaning comes from the way the courts have interpreted the limitation spelled out there. “The judicial power,” it says, “shall extend to all cases…and controversies.” A “case or controversy” means, in this context, a live lawsuit, with those on each side having something genuinely in dispute, and that something is capable of being decided by the use of rules of law.

    The courts, in short, will not decide mere abstract legal controversies, and they will not hand out advisory opinions on how the laws or the Constitution are to be interpreted. Courts have a number of ways of showing respect for those restrictions on their power, and one of them is to refuse to decide what is called a “political question.” In this sense, “political” does not mean a partisan issue; it means an issue that the courts find has to be decided, if it is decided at all, only by the “political” branches: Congress and the Executive Branch.

    Time after time, when members of Congress have sued in the courts, because the Executive Branch did something that they believe frustrated the will of Congress, they have been met at the door of the courthouse with a polite refusal to let them in. Failing to get their way in the skirmishing with the White House does not give members of Congress a right to take their grievance into court. Frustration does not make a real lawsuit, according to this notion.






mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 5:48:27 AM)

quote:


But by the same token, would the Supreme Court be under obligation to entertain or hear such a lawsuit?


SCOTUS has always ruled against legislators (paraphrased, of course), 'You don't like it? Make a law, read your constitution.' by their very refusal to become involved. (separation of powers and all that rot)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art3frag19_user.html

(see section on standing of members of congress)




Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 7:29:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I'm not sure they can just change the rules, though. Amending the Constitution is pretty fucking difficult (as it should be). And, getting 2/3 majority of both chambers is pretty fucking difficult, too.

You want to make it about this House and this President.

And that's the point. If they don't have the will to do it, then they aren't the moral force their self-righteous chest-beating would pretend.

And no, this is not about this House and this President -- it's ALWAYS the case. Same circus, different clowns.




mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 7:54:35 AM)

Well, boys we gotta sell whats on the cart, and amendments (at this time at this place in America) are dealing with this house and this president, and this country. Same same for the next house, next president and next country.




Zonie63 -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 9:11:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:


But by the same token, would the Supreme Court be under obligation to entertain or hear such a lawsuit?


SCOTUS has always ruled against legislators (paraphrased, of course), 'You don't like it? Make a law, read your constitution.' by their very refusal to become involved. (separation of powers and all that rot)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art3frag19_user.html

(see section on standing of members of congress)


Yeah, I figured it would probably turn out that way anyway. It's the usual political squabbling and election year antics. It'll likely heat up in the months approaching November, as it usually does. I don't expect there will be any changes in the local districts around here that I'm familiar with, although there might be some interesting close races and wild cards out there to watch.






mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 9:13:20 AM)

If the nutsackers expect to slaughter the dogs based on an EO hysteria machine, they are gonna be fookin lahst.




Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 9:35:16 AM)

In my district, a Canteresque attack from the right in the primary just got squashed big time, despite the usual "support" from conservative media clowns (who don't yet get it that even NY Republicans aren't wild about these morons).




mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 9:44:28 AM)

This whole shit is real funny anyhow, all the talking heads:

Cantor Defeated: Prima facie evidence that the nutsackers are gonna make all republicans rino has beens.
Several defeats of nutsackers in the primaries: proving that the central established GOP is gonna slaughter the nutsackers.

They are just imploding and dogfighting themselves to death.




Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 10:04:03 AM)

Well the Republican in this race has no Democrat challenging him. So that seat seems safe -- and it should, after the gerrymander this district so that it's a thin snake crossing 11 counties.




mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 10:08:32 AM)

See, that to me is the sown seeds of their own destruction, how can they represent such a gerrymandered district. In many cases its gonna be like outta downtown Manhattan representing Binghamton, or worse, this is the most fucked up gerrymander I have seen across the US.





Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 10:23:19 AM)

Well they can't, but then that's not the goal -- hanging onto the seat is.




MrRodgers -> RE: Interesting Article (6/25/2014 10:43:30 AM)

Mr. Will and the right continue to prove hell hath no furry like a republican scorned, i.e.,...out of office. Once again, they are grasping at straws because again...they can't get the votes.

The constitution is a place no lay journalist should go. Not after Nixon, not after Iran/Contra, not after every exec. has been deliberately refusing to investigate terrorist acts like the crimes that they were, not after deliberately outing a CIA field agent, not after all of the lies and not after the patently unconstitutional senate filibuster.

When will today's right get a grip ? I hope they never do and we never see another repub pres or senate. The house they can rig and the only way they have a majority now.

How about suing the courts ? That's about as relevant. What will the courts do if the pres, refuses it just as Lincoln did ?




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