RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed

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MasterFireMaam -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/10/2006 5:14:03 PM)
I love it, too. It lead me to read her book, "Sacred Contracts". Pretty much changed my life. Fire

Bearlee -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/10/2006 8:31:30 PM)
Someone started a similar thread you might like to check out: http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=468480&mpage=1&key= I pretty much agree with Fire's first post here... but won't re-post what I tried to say already in the above thread. I hope it's the same topic... seems to me it is; but I could be wrong. Edited to add: quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr For the most part, you are expected to accept "control" of the bedroom activities-hands off with the rest. And if that is all that is desired, it makes sense that they must have the rest of their affairs in order. ........ Wow, that sounds NOTHING like you, Caretakr. What you do is very business like; a management dynamic? Sooooooo…you either have what you want or are not looking? I’m so lost. That was just ‘not you’…not the Caretakr I’ve come to know, anyway. Whaddup? And I loved LaTigresse’s comment regarding her rescuing: “For me, what I love about that comparison is not the "rescuing" act but what I see in the animal, or in my case, the strength of the survivor.” Makes sense to me! [:)]

Caretakr -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/10/2006 9:50:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee Someone started a similar thread you might like to check out: http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=468480&mpage=1&key= I pretty much agree with Fire's first post here... but won't re-post what I tried to say already in the above thread. I hope it's the same topic... seems to me it is; but I could be wrong. Edited to add: quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr For the most part, you are expected to accept "control" of the bedroom activities-hands off with the rest. And if that is all that is desired, it makes sense that they must have the rest of their affairs in order. ........ Wow, that sounds NOTHING like you, Caretakr. What you do is very business like; a management dynamic? Sooooooo…you either have what you want or are not looking? I’m so lost. That was just ‘not you’…not the Caretakr I’ve come to know, anyway. Whaddup? And I loved LaTigresse’s comment regarding her rescuing: “For me, what I love about that comparison is not the "rescuing" act but what I see in the animal, or in my case, the strength of the survivor.” Makes sense to me! [:)] When it comes to an M/s contract, I'm cold as hell. Beyond that? I have been quite friendly and sociable with past subcontracted apprentices I have employed, why would a slave be any different?

firstsub -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 5:42:05 AM)
Master knows that His slave is a very capable woman...has her life in order, able to handle her finances, (most of the time) raised her family, Be a compotent worker in the busisness world. A very strong almost dominant woman away from her Master, with her family and in her vanilla life. Her desires to submit to Him come directly from those strengths and capabilities. His desires to Dominate her and accept her power works perfectly in the POWER EXCHANGE of the BDSM lifestyle relationship we have togehter. Master is well aware of how much this slave needs Him. Needs to surrends herself to His will.

LaTigresse -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 5:59:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bossandrew Feminism is deeply unattrative to most men. Fortunately I am not at all concerned with that![:D]

Jasmyn -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 6:29:09 AM)
LaTigresse [:)] ...lol

CreativeDominant -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 7:16:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sharainks CreativeDominant, I wasn't speaking about giving/not giving up control. I was speaking about people's need to be needed. How the comment about "you don't want to yield control of hardly any of your life" got into the mix is beyond me. Of course the initial comment about "Oh I can help you" often blows me away as well. Just because one can do things doesn't mean they would not appreciate relief from it or help with it. The comment you noted above got into the mix because of your statements that you are a person who "manages her life in a responsible manner" and that you're "used to coping with what life throws at you without asking for outside help" tied to your observation that umpteen dominants come at you with the statement that they can fix things for you or do something for you. In combination, your post...in my perception only, possibly...comes across as you being a submissive who does not appreciate a dominant wanting to take control of most areas of your life. If my perception was wrong...and your statement that you would be appreciative of help/relief from doing these things indicates I may have been...then I apologize. quote: Sleazybutterfly and Bossandrew appear to be on track with what I was asking. Also those who want a partner they don't have to parent, but who are adults and responsible are on track. And as I noted, I do not want to have to micromanage a submissive or parent them...I have two children I've guided to adulthood and I am not up for another round with someone who is supposed to be an adult. I think you and I and they are thinking along the same lines...I just came at this from the perspective of: in saying what you say, please point to me what aspect of your life you are willing to yield control of, other than personal behavior in regards to the relationship. As sleazybutterfly noted, asking for input is not saying that you are incompetent and is welcomed. quote: I tend to find that many men are intimidated by what I do for a living, the fact that my life isn't a mess, and seem to look past the submission part to feeling like they could not "help" me in my life because I'm competant on my own. I feel that I addressed this above and in my initial post (and in my profile, I believe). I do not want to have to micromanage or rescue anyone. As Caretaker noted though, I do not want to just control the bedroom life or relationship life of my submissive. Things get very complex when speaking of issues of control/help/advice/guidance and where and when they come into play as well as how much. quote: In reverse people seem to understand that a submissive man can cope with life and want to submit at the same time. True. But there again...general observation from the threads posted on these boards and what I've seen at the Harbour, the Enclave, Uncommon Ground, my friends, etc....the dynamic between male submissives and their female dominants is different than the dynamic that takes place between female submissives and their male dominants. Still...I think you will find that, at least in some of these relationships...there is a control yielded over at least certain parts of the submissive's life whether the submissive is competent or not or, to the other extreme, in need of rescue or not.

IronBear -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 7:51:08 AM)
I believe that it is inherent in most if not all males to want to offer help to what they seem to see as the weaker sex. This may just be cultural of course I am not sure. However for me I tend to fall into the "Big Brother" mode often enough with most of my women friends. Having said this, whilst the helpless female will always touch my hart I am mostly attracted to strong women who also know kow when to ask or accept help from someone. With these ladies, I'm just as likely to automatiocally see someone who may be a collegue rather than a damsel in distress. Offerig to help will be made to both sexes equally especially if I like you. That is friendship as much as anything else. I try however to be aware of people and if I know that offering help is a touchy point with you (and it is with a few friends from a matter of pride as much as anything else), I'll just commnt that I may be able to help if needed and leave it at that or justs ask simply "Want a hand?" Essentially both Neets and I like to help people, it just our nature...

Fawne -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 8:01:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I am going to try and explain my feelings in some sort of way that makes sense to someone other than me. I have a deep need to be needed. I think it is part of the reason I adopt rescued animals. I have no interest in buying a pedigree puppy, kitten, foal. I like bringing home a terrified creature and with love, nurturing and careful discipline, watching them blossom into their fullest potential. The animals I always seem to chose have a certain something, an intelligence, a survivor instinct that is still shining thru, damaged but not destroyed. I see it and want to nourish that. I think that says something about my dominant traits also. I don't have any interest in just the physical play of BDSM by itself, it must be a part of a relationship even were it to be just a close friendship. The touchy weird part is that I don't do the clingy scary " I neeeeeeed you to survive!!" "You are my whooooooolllle world!" type thing either. That just creeps me out and makes me want to get the hell out of there fast. I don't want to be someone's WHOLE world, just a really important part of it. The women, one in particular, that have always intrigued me are those that are strong and together, basically in control of their lives, smart and funny BUT underneath all of that they hide a vulnerability, usually a past hurt. They are quite often very outgoing and not obviously submissive. It is only when we establish a friendship, some sort of rapport. Once they realize that maybe just maybe they can trust me that they begin to open up a little, show more of their vulnerabilities. It can be a slow process but the relationship that is created is indestructable. The nature of it may change in time but the foundation it was built on will always exist. That is what touches me. Thank you, LaTigresse. Much respect to a Lady of understanding.

Caretakr -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 8:16:02 AM)
I think that cultural conditioning for personal autonomy has much to do with this-it's a very modern concept. Older constructs emphasized teamwork, and assigning a leadership role. With the end result that everyone is the leader now,and no one wants to follow-they are made to feel inferior or crippled, if they do. And if everyone leads, that leads to power struggles-from being too pig-headed to compromise. We have a huge divorce rate now. And people are cheating right and left-out of boredom and resentment for thier spouses. I'd hardly call that "a healthy culture." I find also find this rather sad, since it places submissive types in a double bind. On one hand, they have a desire to be led, and to trust that leader. And on the other hand, society now tells them they are weak to do so. I find it of no wonder,once they can break the chains of stereotype, and unreasonable bias...... That they find freedom in bondage.

enthralled -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 8:30:59 AM)
I can't speak for dominants, but the way that I feel is - if I can't care for myself, if my whole life is a mess and I don't have it 'together'.... then how could I efficiently care for my dominant if they were constantly having to deal with my problems? If someone wanted me to be a helpless lass that needed rescuing, I'd have to roleplay it! [;)] ~enthralled

Fawne -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 8:37:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr I think that cultural conditioning for personal autonomy has much to do with this-it's a very modern concept. Older constructs emphasized teamwork, and assigning a leadership role. With the end result that everyone is the leader now,and no one wants to follow-they are made to feel inferior or crippled, if they do. And if everyone leads, that leads to power struggles-from being too pig-headed to compromise. We have a huge divorce rate now. And people are cheating right and left-out of boredom and resentment for thier spouses. I'd hardly call that "a healthy culture." I find also find this rather sad, since it places submissive types in a double bind. On one hand, they have a desire to be led, and to trust that leader. And on the other hand, society now tells them they are weak to do so. I find it of no wonder,once they can break the chains of stereotype, and unreasonable bias...... That they find freedom in bondage. Thank you, Caretakr. It is a tightrope to walk. Thanks to almost ;) all of you, CM posters. There are some great folks here. This can be a difficult medium in which to communicate, it seems. Things are posted quickly, often late at night, or at work and the boss is coming <giggle> and things said can easily be taken wrong. Everyone, please relax and have lots of luck love fun +++ i need to get back to my own work.... ;)

SirKenin -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 8:46:03 AM)
Hmmm. It does not turn Me off at all. I really like a person that can help themselves. I find it a burden if I have to carry both of us all the time. Of course with that said I also like helping a sub and will do anything for them when the occasion arises, as long as I love them that way.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 8:51:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr With the end result that everyone is the leader now,and no one wants to follow-they are made to feel inferior or crippled, if they do. And if everyone leads, that leads to power struggles-from being too pig-headed to compromise. We have a huge divorce rate now. And people are cheating right and left-out of boredom and resentment for thier spouses. I'd hardly call that "a healthy culture." This might be hijacking the thread a bit, but I have to comment on this. I see the above kind of thing in relationships in general, as do you, Caretkr. We are being taught that we are entitled to demand that others make us happy. We see this especially when talking about co-dependency. The basic teaching in co-dependency theory is that it's wrong put another person's wants and needs before our own. We should be looking out for ourselves, not matter what. While I'm not saying that we shouldn't protect ourselves and have boundaries, those that preach against co-dependency are basically teaching us to be totally selfish, fiercely independent and to focus on forcing the other people to meet our needs. But, what if we're BOTH co-dependent, focusing on our partner's need and wants all the time instead of our own? How much better would our relationships be if we each joyfully made our partners happy, giving freely rather than expecting to receive, demanding our happiness from our partners? The healthy boundaries would come up when we end up in a ONE SIDED co-dependent relationship. My suggestion (based on stuff I've read, not an original idea) is that mutual co-dependency is a valid thing and worth having...much like the teamwork idea in the quote above. For me, this is the basis of healthy Ms relationships. Master Fire

LeatherBentOne -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 9:36:36 AM)
Nope, I don't..........I like an independent and strong sub. If I didn't, Id be a shrink instead of a Domme LeatherBentOne

Bearlee -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 10:53:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr When it comes to an M/s contract, I'm cold as hell. Beyond that? I have been quite friendly and sociable with past subcontracted apprentices I have employed, why would a slave be any different? No reason, Sir...I guess I just never 'knew' someone who treated them differently. No big deal...you just 'sounded' different than usual. I beg your pardon...

Kedikat -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 1:05:44 PM)
Not sure how useful my thoughts are on this, as I seek one who is mostly free of responsibilities and such, so she has time to put up solely with my crap [;)] If her outside reponsibilities made her happier, I definitely would encourage them to a point. I would not want her to be helpless and vacant, but carefree, happy. I would try to let her know that I am aware she is selfsufficient, while enjoying taking care of her. It's a difficult line to walk on both sides.

sharainks -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 5:02:49 PM)
CreativeDominant, I think I get that primarily from a number of things going on in my life right now. Its daunting even for me and not much of it is anything its possible to turn over to another. Now...if I'm wrong I would love help cleaning out my mother's 120 year old Victorian house with her 40 years of teaching aids, and the depression era habit of never throwing one thing out. I would love help trying to deal with the nursing home, the endless paperwork of dealing with all these places who still send bills for things. Getting ready for an estate auction, and selling her house. I'm her POA as well. I'm trying to finish raising my 17 unmentionable. I work in a prison thats partly behavioral and partly extremely insane men as a mental health professional. I shut myself in rooms with them either one at a time or in groups of up to 10. My life is somewhat risk oriented, pretty stressful right now, (especially since we have worked at about 2/3 staff for over a year) but when I really get to talking with someone-the type of things I've got going on don't lend well to others taking them over. Mostly I seem to get a sense of uneasiness when someone realizes what there is to cope with. The man I'm interested in now looks for small ways to ease things but he has plenty on his own table at present. Sometimes I would like to take a trip and not return to this, but I'm not geared that way. What comes across as unwillingness is sometimes just stuff that people can't change at a given moment in their life.

Caretakr -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 5:19:03 PM)
quote: But, what if we're BOTH co-dependent, focusing on our partner's need and wants all the time instead of our own? How much better would our relationships be if we each joyfully made our partners happy, giving freely rather than expecting to receive, demanding our happiness from our partners? The healthy boundaries would come up when we end up in a ONE SIDED co-dependent relationship. My suggestion (based on stuff I've read, not an original idea) is that mutual co-dependency is a valid thing and worth having...much like the teamwork idea in the quote above. For me, this is the basis of healthy Ms relationships. This is why the dynamic appeals to me. Not for having an objectified partner, but an objective one. Current western culture does stress the individual to the detriment of others. It's part of a capitalist, dog eat dog ideal. I decided to opt out of this rat race, in relationships. I don't want to have to compete and compromise with my partner every day. It's stupid, it's stressful, and wasteful of precious time and energy. I want clear understandings, realistic expectations of the division of labor, and consequences for screwing up. More than anything else, I need the ability to excercise an intimacy and serentity that comes from mutual acceptance and valuation. To be able to work as a team, and take on life with mutual goals and visions. This really isn't so much M/s, as the way things were done in the past. What's absolutely tragic, is that the way people happily lived for millenia...... Now has to be labelled as some odd kink.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Strong submissives/Doms feeling needed (7/11/2006 5:33:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sharainks CreativeDominant, I think I get that primarily from a number of things going on in my life right now. Its daunting even for me and not much of it is anything its possible to turn over to another. Now...if I'm wrong I would love help cleaning out my mother's 120 year old Victorian house with her 40 years of teaching aids, and the depression era habit of never throwing one thing out. I would love help trying to deal with the nursing home, the endless paperwork of dealing with all these places who still send bills for things. Getting ready for an estate auction, and selling her house. I'm her POA as well. I'm trying to finish raising my 17 unmentionable. I work in a prison thats partly behavioral and partly extremely insane men as a mental health professional. I shut myself in rooms with them either one at a time or in groups of up to 10. My life is somewhat risk oriented, pretty stressful right now, (especially since we have worked at about 2/3 staff for over a year) but when I really get to talking with someone-the type of things I've got going on don't lend well to others taking them over. Mostly I seem to get a sense of uneasiness when someone realizes what there is to cope with. The man I'm interested in now looks for small ways to ease things but he has plenty on his own table at present. Sometimes I would like to take a trip and not return to this, but I'm not geared that way. What comes across as unwillingness is sometimes just stuff that people can't change at a given moment in their life. I can understand that. Sometimes life presents a person with a whole lot of "here you go...take care of it" and no one else is around to do so and, in some cases, would not be able to do so. I admire anyone, submissive or dominant, who takes this sort of 'lifedish' and instead of tossing it away, cleans the plate. And as I said, I wasn't directing an insult at you or at any other submissive. The fact that you have someone that you are interested in who is looking for at least small ways to ease things says something good for him, at least in my opinion. As for that sense of uneasiness, given all that you do have to cope with, I can understand where even one of those dominants who is geared towards 'fixing things' or being a 'rescuer' would be daunted. But, in all honesty, adding those components in changes the texture of the original post, doesn't it? The original post sounds like the post of a competent submissive who doesn't need a dominant to come in and 'fix' things or 'manage' things for her. Adding these components in makes this a specific life situation that may or may not relate to other aspects of your life in the long term. To say anymore would be to hijack this thread and I don't feel that's fair. So...I've given my opinion, apologized for my misunderstanding and stated something based on further information. I wish you luck with your situation. Having dealt with my mother's affairs for two and a half yrs from the time of her stroke up to her eventual death, I know how daunting things are and I sympathize.

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