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RE: Institutional Discrimination - 5/31/2014 6:29:49 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If a company is going to require its employees to do something, its up to the company to provide tutors/teachers to bring those employees up to speed.



That's called training, Joether, but the trainee is expected to bring some basic skills to the table. If a new guy got into my truck his first day on the job, for instance, I assumed he could read the street and road signs, and got right into how to safely operate the machine.


I'd theoretically support a requirement for very basic English skills to get a taxi driver's license and conversational competence to renew it. I can't imagine telling private companies they can't set their own minimum competency requirements. I say theoretically, because I'm not sure it's a big enough issue to require a govenment intrusion.

A taxi driver who is able to clearly communicate with his customers is going be more successful in the job, and make better tips. A recent immigrant's English skills are unlikely to remain static, working with a public speaking the common tongue, either.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 5/31/2014 7:46:21 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

I clicked the link twice. Both times, I lost patience with the glacial load time. So I haven't seen/read the story. Winging it with some stray thoughts from a frequent taxi passenger:

-- No doubt about it, a language barrier considerably complicates conveying one's destination and actually getting there. On a recent visit, my brother had a cabbie who didn't know where the National Zoo is. Bro said it's at 3001 Connecticut Ave., N.W. The driver asked him to spell "Connecticut" so he could put it in the GPS. As Dave Barry would say, I am not making this up.

-- A key question in determining whether this is a fitting matter for government regulation is whether the cabbies work for taxi companies or as freelancers. We have both here.

-- In terms of companies, the hiring of non-speakers suggests that there may be a shortage of English speakers. I'd rather have a cabbie with poor English than no cabbie at all.

-- It seems a shame to enact a regulation that impedes folks from going out and earning a living--the very thing we claim to want workers to do.

-- Another way to achieve the same effect, and benefit passengers like my brother, would be requiring that potential cabbies demonstrate some knowledge of the city. They'd almost certainly pick up some English along the way.

-- I wonder if the problem might be worsened by cell phones. Two decades ago, cabbies and passengers talked. That gave immigrant cabbies daily practice in the language. Now, each natters on the phone, often in two different languages.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 5/31/2014 8:00:32 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If a company is going to require its employees to do something, its up to the company to provide tutors/teachers to bring those employees up to speed.



That's called training, Joether, but the trainee is expected to bring some basic skills to the table. If a new guy got into my truck his first day on the job, for instance, I assumed he could read the street and road signs, and got right into how to safely operate the machine.


I'd theoretically support a requirement for very basic English skills to get a taxi driver's license and conversational competence to renew it. I can't imagine telling private companies they can't set their own minimum competency requirements. I say theoretically, because I'm not sure it's a big enough issue to require a govenment intrusion.

A taxi driver who is able to clearly communicate with his customers is going be more successful in the job, and make better tips. A recent immigrant's English skills are unlikely to remain static, working with a public speaking the common tongue, either.

I can totally see, for example, a taxi service specializing in a foreign language.

Government involvement here is inappropriate.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 5/31/2014 8:01:35 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yes, god forbid a company expect their employees to be able to communicate with the customers.


This isn't about the company's expectations. This is about government mandating taxicab drivers know English. If it's the cab company deciding to only hire drivers who can speak English, that's entirely different.




Exactly.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 5:10:44 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You mean someone passed a law requiring people to speak passable English in deference to other languages?

It would make sense if the majority of people in this country spoke English..

I am not being sarcastic, considering how many regional dialects there are in this country, not even college grads with English majors speak proper English.

I suggest the federal government pick one universal and solely American language for the country to speak, a nice simple language. My choices are Cherokee, Apache, Lakota or Cheyenne. None of these language have words that sound the same and mean something different or a bunch of words that mean the same thing.

Now some of the posters here might suggest Klingon or Drazi.
]
then there are the edumacated posters that would want to resurrect ancient Greek, Celt, or Latin.



Any educated poster would vote for esperanto

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 9:48:32 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I'm trying to think of the last time I was in a taxi, and it's been a hell of a long time. It must have been in Vegas, better than 10 years ago. The driver got offended by the conversation my cousin and I were having, and threw us out of the car somewhere north of the Strip. I suppose having one who didn't speak English would have been a good thing that night.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 9:58:40 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
If a new guy got into my truck his first day on the job, for instance, I assumed he could read the street and road signs, and got right into how to safely operate the machine.



If not, then your interview process really needs some attention.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 9:59:51 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Any educated poster would vote for esperanto

Much of the world is multilingual. It's we Americans who are too dumb to master multiple languages.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 10:00:28 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm trying to think of the last time I was in a taxi, and it's been a hell of a long time. It must have been in Vegas, better than 10 years ago. The driver got offended by the conversation my cousin and I were having, and threw us out of the car somewhere north of the Strip. I suppose having one who didn't speak English would have been a good thing that night.

Holy shit! What were you talking about?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 10:22:28 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Holy shit! What were you talking about?



I was really quite drunk at the time, but I think we were joking about picking up a hooker we had passed, and double teaming her in the cab. That particular cousin and I have similar senses of humor, and our laugh fests even scare people who know us.

All ended well. The ride saved us a couple miles of walk, he put us out in front of a bar, and we didn't pay what was already on the meter.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 11:45:52 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		So. Guy approaches a line of taxis at O'hare. Asks the driver: "Do you speak English well?"
Goes through several drivers before he finds one who, in hs personal opinion, speaks English well enough for communication not to be a problem.
Is the guy a racist?
Does it cause a major shitstorm?


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 11:55:10 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		If it were a significant problem, a smart cab company would run a campaign touting the excellent and guaranteed English of its drivers.

Probably with clearly marked cabs.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 11:56:58 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If it were a significant problem, a smart cab company would run a campaign touting the excellent and guaranteed English of its drivers.

Probably with clearly marked cabs.





Bingo

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 11:58:20 AM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline 		Today, such a company would probably be sued by the Holder Justice Department for institutionalizing discrimination against the differently linguistically abled.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 11:59:26 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You guys are gonna have to decide whether you're for government interfere or against it.

Because you're really trying to have it both ways.

(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 12:15:45 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		It is a real problem in many places, but in many jurisdictions, I doubt they could survive the lawsuits, or the attention from the appropriate licensing authority.

Their gross would perhaps increase

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/1/2014 4:05:28 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Any educated poster would vote for esperanto

Much of the world is multilingual. It's we Americans who are too dumb to master multiple languages.



I don't know that we are too dumb as much as too arrogant.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 6/1/2014 4:06:47 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/2/2014 9:21:19 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I really am torn on this.

I don't think there should be a law requiring anyone to learn English.

By the same token, there are jobs where speaking English is essential. I am not sure that being a taxi driver is one of them.

Then, there's the side of me who comes from immigrant families whose members all learned English because they wanted to; because that's what one did, if one wanted to survive in a country that speaks English.

This whole situation is just a huge shit sandwich.







I don't have a problem with people preserving their native languages and cultures. I think it would have been really cool to grow up in a house speaking 2 languages.....my family's native language and English. While I don't think English should be the "official" language of the U.S., I also don't think we should be expected to jump through hoops to accommodate people who don't speak English. Plus, if you want to work in this country in a job where you interact with people who speak English, you should know the language well enough to do your job. If the cab driver can't take the fare to his requested destination, then he needs to learn to speak more English.



I took the liberty of fixing the quote boxes.

Based upon what you wrote, we don't entirely agree.

Certainly I learned the languages of my fathers as well as English and I feel like it did nothing but benefit me. I raised my children the same way.

What I don't agree with is that I do believe that English should be the official language. I used to live in a place where a good portion of the people were not native to the US and on the whole, the populace spoke very little English (they used to come to me to translate official papers and such).

If we don't proclaim an official language, we are going to have to continue to "jump through hoops to accommodate people who don't speak English". If we don't have an official language, what is the reason for not continuing to jump through those hoops?

"Sorry, we won't print the drivers' manual in Urdu because ... ummm ... we just don't want to."

Or ...

"Sorry, we print the drivers' manuals in English because that is our official language."

I am all for the "free market" method for people who want to excel at their jobs to be motivated to do so by monetary gain/loss.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to smileforme50)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/2/2014 9:38:18 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I am all for the "free market" method for people who want to excel at their jobs to be motivated to do so by monetary gain/loss.


Careful now. You might start showing your racism.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Institutional Discrimination - 6/2/2014 9:43:04 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I am all for the "free market" method for people who want to excel at their jobs to be motivated to do so by monetary gain/loss.


Careful now. You might start showing your racism.



Yeah, expecting people to play on the level playing field provided is obviously not very "progressive" of me.

But, ya know what? This brings up a phenomenon from where I used to live; there were two taxi companies that sprang up that catered to the Spanish speakers.

The entrepreneurial attitude would seem to demand that people that just refuse to speak English find a way to make that refusal work for them so that they can still "make a buck".







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 40
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