BDSM, sex and religion (Full Version)

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piopio1949 -> BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 4:21:40 AM)

Hi there! I'm kinda into philosophy and religion and there is one question on which I would truly appreciate some input. Since I was raised in a Catholic family, that's the one I'm more interested in but I'd love to hear from people with different beliefs as well. :)

Here it goes: when you engage in BDSM-related and/or sexual activities, do you ever feel that you are breaking the tenets of your religion? If so, how do you cope with it?



DaddySatyr -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 4:34:51 AM)

I was raised Traditional Catholic. If you were raised Catholic, you might recognize the term: "Seda Vacantists" (Empty Seaters).

We followed the rules of the church from 1958 and earlier. So, we were a bit more scrupulous than modern-day Vatican Catholics.

Having said all of that, I came to find out that my church lied to me. I won't go through the whole sordid story but it involved annulment.

Once that realization hit me, I stopped being a member of the church.

I find that I still have some "religious" practices (saying grace over meals, no meat on Fridays, I love The Prayer of St. Francis, etc.) but, I had to look inside and find the God that truly speaks to me.

Again, I won't go into detail, here but I will tell you that the God that I know has no issue with the things in which I engage.

I will go so far as to say that many times, I have challenged Christians of every stripe to find a quote in the Bible which is directly attributable to Jesus (since "Christians" follow the teachings of "Christ") that nullifies any part of my life. They've been unable to, thus far.

I wish you luck as this is an incredibly hard journey; one that will test your faith and resolve.



Michael



Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 4:42:57 AM)

FR~

If the tenets of your religion get in the way of your erstwhile endeavours, whether 'nilla or kink, then you need to get out of one or the other or ignore whichever one is in the way.
Whatever you do, you are not being true to yourself. [:D]

I just don't see how the problem arises.
I don't know of any religion that would get in the way of any BDSM activity.

So, in essence, neither should get in the way of the other.
Ergo, nothing to cope with. [:)]



piopio1949 -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 4:51:09 AM)

I appreciate your input [both of you] but I believe some clarification is necessary. I am not a Catholic; I am totally agnostic, yet I find religion to be an extraordinarily interesting topic (in the same way that a Catholic, for instance, might be intrigued by how someone can live without a God). I wouldn't want anyone to be deceived in believing that I am seeking for spiritual guidance: I am merely trying to satisfy my curiosity.

The reason I am asking is because I was raised to see sex as something dirty which was exclusive meant to be for the purpose of bringing children, nothing else. Therefore, had I chosen to follow that path, I would find myself at a conflict between my faith and my personal preferences. BDSM is obviously not something that we would usually talk about and not something that I would bring to the table in a discussion with my relatives but I know that some Catholics still find sex to be sinful. Whether this is because the Bible says so or simply because they were taught that, I do not know.



DaddySatyr -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 4:59:08 AM)

Hmmm ...

When I was a practicing Catholic, I was not taught that sex was strictly for procreation.

I was taught almost exactly the opposite, in fact. I was taught that sex was the "marriage debt" and that as long as the main purpose for having sex was not to prevent procreation, it was not sinful.

But, your clarification kind of puts me in a bind because it seems you're looking for people who practice a religion to "defend" the tenets of that religion regarding BDSM?

Have I got that right?







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



piopio1949 -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 5:05:25 AM)

I wouldn't put it that way. It is simply that, the way I was raised, sex (let alone kink) was regarded as sinful and undesiderable. Therefore, I would expect someone to have faced some conflict regarding their sexual preferences, and I am intrigued to know how someone responds to that kind of doubt. BDSM in itself is quite particular because, most unfortunately, it is usually frowned upon and it is not as easy to chat about it as might be the case with vanilla sex, so someone looking for an answer might have an even harder time.



DaddySatyr -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 5:07:15 AM)

Gotcha. Yeah, I can't help because I've never had that conflict.

I do think it's an interesting topic and I'll be watching.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 5:10:18 AM)

You are assuming that BDSM involves sex.... it doesn't necessarily.

Even so, I'd still repeat what I originally said.

What I find interesting is your statement "...(in the same way that a Catholic, for instance, might be intrigued by how someone can live without a God)."
In my experience, nobody who is engulfed or committed to any religion isn't "intrigued", they instantly condemn without question. So IMHO, that PoV comes from your own agnostic perspective rather than from a religious standpoint.
As for being raised as seeing sex as 'dirty', that isn't exclusively a catholic view either.

I think you are trying to tie the two things together into a conflict which doesn't exist.
Either you believe and follow your beliefs and/or your personal tenet or you don't.
I find that a very simple thing/concept to understand and frankly can't see the conflict to resolve.



piopio1949 -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 5:39:10 AM)

There are a couple of issues you are pointing at, so let me go over them one by one.

First, I am aware that BDSM does not always involve sex, although there is usually some overlap. Perhaps it would have been cleverer to leave the BDSM bit out of the question but since I am interested in this as well and I do not know whether any religion condemns BDSM activities (or, with BDSM being so wide, part of it), I thought it might be enlightening to discuss it.

Then, regarding the bit about how deeply religious people instantly condemn those who do not think like they do, I do not think this is the case. It is true that many religious people will usually believe they have the moral high ground in any moral or religious argument (as many atheists do as well), but it does not mean that all of them do. First, because not all religions automatically condemn those who do not follow them (think Buddhism, for instance), and secondly, because there are many religious people who are actually intrigued by other views of the world, even if they do believe that theirs is the only right one. Of course, you do have a point: my view comes from an agnostic point of view, but I have known Catholics who simply wanted to understand what led me to stop believing in God.

And lastly, of course I will speak mostly about the Catholics because this is the religion I was raised in and I know the most about. I do not know about other many religions' views on sex but the original question remains: if you religion forbids you to do something that you crave, how do you react? If you break a rule, do you actually think that you are sinning and feel bad about it? I have also known Catholics to occasionally break their tenets and still not feel about it - instead, it came as something natural for them and they would not give it any thought. That is the conflict I am speaking about: you can obviously decide whether to heed one rule or not, but what goes on in your mind when you are actually breaking it?



Zonie63 -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 6:32:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: piopio1949
And lastly, of course I will speak mostly about the Catholics because this is the religion I was raised in and I know the most about. I do not know about other many religions' views on sex but the original question remains: if you religion forbids you to do something that you crave, how do you react? If you break a rule, do you actually think that you are sinning and feel bad about it? I have also known Catholics to occasionally break their tenets and still not feel about it - instead, it came as something natural for them and they would not give it any thought. That is the conflict I am speaking about: you can obviously decide whether to heed one rule or not, but what goes on in your mind when you are actually breaking it?


I'm an Agnostic and Recovering Catholic as well. I think they knew and expected that people were going to break their rigid set of rules, which is why they invented Confession. They can grant dispensation or indulgences on occasion, too. BDSM might be allowed as long as one has permission from a priest or at least 2 nuns. [;)]

As I recall, what goes on in the mind of the alleged "sinner" is the key point of how "God" supposedly makes judgment. Strictly speaking, simple lust, sexual desire, fantasizing, coveting thy neighbor's wife or oxen...these are sinful enough to make one sizzle and burn in the Afterlife - even if you don't actually act upon these desires in any physical way. At least the Catholics have the concept of Purgatory, so eventually you'll get out and reach Heaven, where you'll be issued wings, a halo, and a harp - and you can sit in the clouds and sing for the rest of eternity. I think other religions have it as an all-or-nothing deal, either you have to be pious and righteous enough to get into Heaven - or you go straight to Hell for all eternity.





FieryOpal -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 6:56:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: piopio1949

when you engage in BDSM-related and/or sexual activities, do you ever feel that you are breaking the tenets of your religion? If so, how do you cope with it?

I am a Protestant with a Puritan family background, and I was never taught that sex was dirty.
I was taught that sex is sacred. The marriage bed is undefiled.
Further, a man is to leave his parents and cleave unto his wife, and the two are to become as one.
One can therefore extrapolate that a pair-bonded couple are to function as a single, synergistic, symbiotic unit. This is called being yoked together.
One is prohibited from harming oneself; therefore, one cannot cause harm to one's partner without causing harm to oneself.
We are to worship God with our bodily temples.
How we choose to express our worship is a matter of God-given Free Will, as we were made in His image.
God Is Love, according to St. John the Revelator, the most beloved of Christ the Anointed One, the one to whom Christ entrusted his own human mother upon the Cross.
Whatever is done out of transcendent love is beyond the reach of carnal sin.
Consequently, I have no reason to feel guilty for what my partner and I do to please, to comfort, and to fulfill one another's needs.



DesFIP -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 7:40:43 AM)

Sex positive background here. No sex conflicts that need resolution. Personally I recommend therapy for those so conflicted.

Reconstructionist Jew here. Basically the only thing that occurs to me is the requirement to ask forgiveness for the sin of sex exploitation during Yom Kippur. What that means is that if it's porn which you pay for and don't steal, the model got paid and is okay with this so she isn't being exploited. Looking in your neighbor's window while she's getting ready for bed in order to jerk off isn't okay because she didn't consent to that. So I have no conflicts as consent is a foundation of BDSM.



piopio1949 -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 1:39:14 PM)

I asked a Catholic friend of mine (who is not into BDSM) about her views of sex and she offered me the following explanation:

quote:

Of course there is a collision, due to archaic traditions, tenets and customs. What do I do in this case? What my conscience dictates - if I don't see it as something bad, I do what I believe to be more convenient, because sex is something natural, older than mankind, yet it has been frowned upon by religious people.

When I was a newbie, a priest once told me "Do you feel that you are doing any wrong? Not really, right? So what is the problem?".

Of course you can see that this is not the view of someone who respects and/or follows all of the Catholic tenets but I am including it here for the sake of completeness.

Edit: grammar.



Extravagasm -> RE: BDSM, sex and religion (4/21/2014 2:30:05 PM)

Safe Sexuality is inseparably intertwined with Positive Health, with no end to what is discovered about their connectedness. This vastly exceeds the simple slogan 'health benefits of sex'. Its right up there with nutrition, breath, sleep and exercise. Sexuality also spawns vitality, creativity, confidence, and accomplishment. Need I add, Love.

Religion on the other hand, is optional. . . Take your pick, piopio.

Or combine them (as in the Passion of Christ, seen as an invitation to embrace submission and masochism.)



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