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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/15/2014 7:24:27 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh, I think you left one off.

How about Charlie Crist saying to the NY Times

When he was running for the U.S. Senate for the first time in 1998, Crist said in a questionnaire for the Times: "I am pro-choice, but not pro-abortion.

Really?

Nice of you to try to portray all the morons on one side of the equation.



You really don't understand what Crist was saying?

Look - try to put aside your preconceived absolutes about abortion and maybe take a look at Joe Biden's response to a question about his position on abortion directed at him in the 2012 vice presidential debate.
(Obviously paraphrased:) Biden's response was that he was raised as a Roman Catholic and therefore did not support abortion. However, he then added that he understood that his belief conflicted with the beliefs of many other Americans who believe that abortion is a woman's right. Therefore his religious belief was not something that should be allowed to be forced upon other people's religious beliefs.

Ergo: Crist can be pro-life in his own personal beliefs, but at the same time he can be pro-choice because he is also an American and believes in the rule of law.



Thank you, people tend to conflate being anti abortion with being anti choice. One of the problems is that the 'pro life' movement is made up mostly of people who want to make abortion (along with sex ed) illegal, whereas a lot of people are personally anti abortion but also feel they can't impose their beliefs on others..

There is a story I remember vividly, from when NY state legalized abortion (before Roe). The vote to legalize it was close, and a state senator from the Bronx ended up being the deciding vote. He was demonized, the church excoriated him (he was Italian)...but I remember his words. He told the story of his daughter, who was married, she had a kid who was severely developmentally disabled, Down's syndrome or some such, and the strain of having the kid ended up destroying her marriage, the father walked away. What he said was he personally didn't believe in abortion, neither did his daughter, but after seeing what happened to her and her marriage, he could not in good conscience allow his beliefs to take the right to make that decision away from others faced with issues like that. I remember his face, I was a kid at the time, but he had a haunted look in his eyes, but when I looked at him I saw a man who had agonized, and realized that he couldn't condemn others to follow his beliefs if they had a choice to make.

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/15/2014 8:37:28 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
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Status: offline 		I'm just anti word games.

Pro-choice is a draft pick in major league football.
If you want to be pro-abortion have the guts to say you're pro abortion.

Either you support a woman's right to murder a baby or you don't. Saying you are "pro choice, but anti abortion" just means you don't have the spine to say you're pro-abortion.

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 3:14:13 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer



Well, they should have guns, shouldn't they? I mean, foetuses are people - that much is made abundantly clear by the pro lifers. And we know what it says in the 2nd Amendment (about *people*, not 'adults', nor even 'adults and children over a certain age'). Therefore, foetuses should be packing heat.


Well of course they should! Especially when we recall item # 9 about masturbating foetuses.

Every other wanker is packing heat so why shouldn't the foetuses too? They meet the qualifying criterion!

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/16/2014 3:16:17 AM >

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 6:17:11 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

And which party do you think the pro-lifers usually affiliate with? I think you'll figure it out if you think hard enough



I think that would be the religious ones which covers both sides of the political spectrum. I also know there are some atheists out there who are also against it and that would also cover both sides of the political spectrum. Now the right may be more vocal about it, but don't kid yourself that there aren't a shitload of liberals who don't think abortion is right. Personally I think it is wrong but I also don't think it is my choice to make for anyone but myself. It has nothing to do with politics and I don't understand why people are so quick to label something by party.

There are people from all over the spectrum who believe abortion is wrong, but the pro life crowd who wants to make abortion illegal are overwhelmingly conservative republicans, the liberals who are not happy with abortion also tend to see it as a personal choice, they won't do it, but they won't make that decisions for others, either. It is also a fact that most of the pro life types whose answer is to make abortion illegal are against birth control being taught in the schools, want to gut planned parenthood entirely, while the liberals who don't like abortion (count me among them, I think it is idiotic as a form of birth control) tend to want to prevent unwanted pregnancies, including access to birth control and so forth, as a way to make it rare.



You are confusing your opinion with facts and no matter how many times you say it, it is still only your opinion.

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 6:28:33 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

You are confusing your opinion with facts and no matter how many times you say it, it is still only your opinion.


Looked like facts to me, THB. Could you be more specific as to what makes you think they constitute 'opinions' instead?

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 6:56:54 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'm just anti word games.

Pro-choice is a draft pick in major league football.
If you want to be pro-abortion have the guts to say you're pro abortion.

Either you support a woman's right to murder a baby or you don't. Saying you are "pro choice, but anti abortion" just means you don't have the spine to say you're pro-abortion.

Well I tell you what: when you pussies have the balls to start calling yourselves "forced breeders" instead of "pro life", then maybe somebody might take that argument even halfway seriously.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 10:12:12 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer



Well, they should have guns, shouldn't they? I mean, foetuses are people - that much is made abundantly clear by the pro lifers. And we know what it says in the 2nd Amendment (about *people*, not 'adults', nor even 'adults and children over a certain age'). Therefore, foetuses should be packing heat.


Well of course they should! Especially when we recall item # 9 about masturbating foetuses.

Every other wanker is packing heat so why shouldn't the foetuses too? They meet the qualifying criterion!



Now THIS is funny!!

ETA: From Hlen, another heat-packin' wanker!!

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 4/16/2014 10:13:30 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 2:01:52 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'm just anti word games.


Either you support a woman's right to murder a baby or you don't. Saying you are "pro choice, but anti abortion" just means you don't have the spine to say you're pro-abortion.

Then stop playing them.

The idea of "A human live begins at conception" dates from a 5th century semi literate monk who when asked "When does human life begin" said "At conception"

He had absolutely no Biblical backup nor did he have a clue of what conception actually was (the microscope was almost a thousand years in the future) but that is what the "Christian Taliban" is hanging their hat on.

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 3:25:11 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

You are confusing your opinion with facts and no matter how many times you say it, it is still only your opinion.


Looked like facts to me, THB. Could you be more specific as to what makes you think they constitute 'opinions' instead?


She is claiming to know how people think and why they make decisions based on what side of the political spectrum they are on. That is not how the real world works.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 3:54:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

You are confusing your opinion with facts and no matter how many times you say it, it is still only your opinion.


Looked like facts to me, THB. Could you be more specific as to what makes you think they constitute 'opinions' instead?


She is claiming to know how people think and why they make decisions based on what side of the political spectrum they are on. That is not how the real world works.



I'm sorry, I strongly disagree. In politics much, if not most, of the thinking individuals do is 'tribal'. That is, they'll tend to vote according to whichever 'colour' they generally support on the political spectrum. That is, if they don't know what their position is on a given issue, self-identifying 'left wingers' will find out what the standard left wing view is, and support that. Right wingers will do likewise.

To be blunt, THB, I think you have a special problem with this because you identify with the right of the spectrum but you yourself are left of centre. That came up in the thread that I started some while ago in which I linked to a questionnaire that you answered - a questionnaire that asked lots of questions about what your view was on various political issues, then placed you somewhere on a left wing / right wing axis. You, like Kirata, came out as moderately left wing, if memory serves.

You were in about the same position on the political spectrum, according to that questionnaire, as PoliteSub - who is proudly right wing by British standards but a fair bit to the left of those Americans using this forum who consider themselves even just moderately right wing. Your result in the questionnaire didn't surprise me, I should say: the right wing of the political spectrum, especially the American right wing, is clearly unsupportive of certain matters that are central to your own life.

The left wing / right wing axis has many faults, but it's one of the most fundamental and enduring analytical tools in politics. In any discussion that even slightly tends towards the political, the right/left wing divide is going to emerge. It's useless to rail against it, as I've so often seen you do.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 4/16/2014 3:56:13 PM >

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 4:02:35 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'm just anti word games.

Pro-choice is a draft pick in major league football.
If you want to be pro-abortion have the guts to say you're pro abortion.

Either you support a woman's right to murder a baby or you don't. Saying you are "pro choice, but anti abortion" just means you don't have the spine to say you're pro-abortion.


Murder....... hardly that is it, because even I know murder is against the law. Even so your stance is bullshit, it is indeed possible to be against abortion but agree women should have the right to decide. Or is your stance government should decide for them, because from memory, you are all for individual choices (except when you dont agree with them)

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RE: The 10 Dumbest Things Ever Said About Abortion and ... - 4/16/2014 4:48:50 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Either you support a woman's right to murder a baby or you don't. Saying you are "pro choice, but anti abortion" just means you don't have the spine to say you're pro-abortion.

Since you ponied up on the gun debate I'll do so here. Yup, I'm "pro abortion" and I'll go further to stipulate "murdering babies" -- or alternatively, prematurely terminating a human life. Either way, potential lost and I see no reason or need to sugar coat it. Just like you (and I for that matter) on the guns issue, I just see the price tag as worth it.

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Profile   Post #: 52
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