RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty....

RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 1:36:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: No one is arguing you have to follow religion. Just give me the same freedom to practise the religion that i choose. You have that right now.... don't use the contraceptives if you don't want to... If you don't want to pay for insurance that covers all no matter their religion then get out of the public business...believe me that will not happen. Butch And yet you are attempting to require that christians fund goods and services that are in violation of their religious values. You are requiring christians to fund abortions and contraceptives which are deeply abhorrent to them. Personaly I hope that the Supremes put a stop, but I expect the continued gradual erosion. So, does the government have a compelling interest in making christian pastors marry people of the same sex? People came to this country seeking freedom. Not free birth control. And frankly I think it is repulsive to think that the free exercise of religion is deemed " a threat to our existence" by the left.

MrRodgers -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 1:44:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR I wonder how much of Hobby Lobby's inventory comes from child laborers and/or sweatshops. But I am sure those child laborers and sweat shops are for the 'legal' purposes of making a 'profit' through labor, are...constitutionally iconoclastic.

Lucylastic -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 1:46:12 PM)
Hmmmm but no one has the right to make workers support their bosses delusions and follow a particular religions feelings. And as congress has made womenshealth part of the mandate, womens health issues include birth control .....yanno their personal liberty and freedoms

FrostedFlake -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 1:53:26 PM)
Corporations are human beings. Corporations have religious beliefs. Corporate religious beliefs trump yours. Even if you are not at all religious. The United States, just like every other government, is a corporation. At a certain point, you have to revolt. On that day every one of the Supremes MUST be lined up and shot.

epiphiny43 -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 1:57:39 PM)
Freedom of Religion refers to personal belief and within bounds, behavior. Employers of citizens, doing business with the public are required to meet social standards independent of their religious considerations. Health, safety and financial rules protect the employee and public. The employer is still free to practice HIS religion, but not dictate his employee's religion or practices. Employers are rarely free to specify only people of particular religions can work there, which seems to me just the same rules. Equally valid (to them) religious rules allow remarkably abusive treatment of 'unbelievers' of particular sects. Which would fall precisely under the requests of Hobby Lobby if allowed. Everyone paying taxes supports some health, economic or military practice they'd really rather not, for personal or religious reasons. The civilization simply becomes unworkable if everyone gets to veto what their taxes pay for.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 1:59:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Then they will make the employees pay for it when they should not have to except for their religious beliefs. This is still imposing their beliefs on others no matter how you look at it... and it will be just the beginning. Butch Why should business have to cover contraceptives at all? Why should business have to cover any health care expenses? Your choice to use contraceptives or not, is coming from you. You don't want to pay for them? Why shouldn't your employer have that same choice (as to whether it wants to pay for them or not)?

FrostedFlake -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:02:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Why should business have to cover contraceptives at all? Why should business have to cover any health care expenses? Because single payer didn't pass. Yet.

Owner59 -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:04:50 PM)
In the early part of last century,the nation of Italy adopted a form of government that basically replaced governance from democratically elected officials to governance by business leaders and church leaders. The idea was these folks were naturally and by god`s hand leaders already so why not let them run the whole shebang.... So the guy who`s family owned the big mill also ran the government/police. Hey......what could go wrong?[:D] They had a name for this for of government......it`s on the tip of my tongue....[;)]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:05:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Why should business have to cover contraceptives at all? Why should business have to cover any health care expenses? Because single payer didn't pass. Yet. So, there is little to no responsibility on the actual care receiver to pay?

Lucylastic -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:06:46 PM)
But they are only wanting to stop four kinds of medication, for religious reasons If they arent happy get out of insurance completely, no benniesbugger all heath insurance. If you work for jws, and your kid or you needs a blood transfusion, but their insurance restricts that....what are you gonna do?

dcnovice -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:09:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR I wonder how much of Hobby Lobby's inventory comes from child laborers and/or sweatshops. Oh isn't that scurrilious attack so typical of the left. Make a personal attack in the absence of evidence. Base, vile, lies and innuendo. Hobby Lobby has been touting its "Christian values" as the basis of its opposition to the ACA. So it's far from scurrilous to ask if those values guide the firm's conduct in other areas as well. Jesus warned, after all, "Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them" (Mt 6:1a). Hobby Lobby claims to "[honor] the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles." By that yardstick, the company's own, asking if those operations include profiting from child labor and inhumane conditions is entirely relevant. Oh, and isn't your pathetic attack so typical of the right--full of fury and hysteria and condemnation, with not a single fact in the whole post?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:11:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic But they are only wanting to stop four kinds of medication, for religious reasons If they arent happy get out of insurance completely, no benniesbugger all heath insurance. If you work for jws, and your kid or you needs a blood transfusion, but their insurance restricts that....what are you gonna do? Um, get the blood transfusion. Duh. And, then, pay for it out of my own pocket. Wouldn't you do the same?

Lucylastic -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:14:32 PM)
Nope But then i live in a smart country that doesnt decline medical needs based on religion

DesideriScuri -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:16:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Nope But then i live in a smart country that doesnt decline medical needs based on religion You wouldn't have gotten the transfusion and paid for it yourself?!? [sm=jaw.gif] Now there's love! [8D]

Owner59 -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:23:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Nope But then i live in a smart country that doesnt decline medical needs based on religion You wouldn't have gotten the transfusion and paid for it yourself?!? [sm=jaw.gif] Now there's love! [8D] Even more logical.....why don`t those poors stop being poor?[8\|]

Phydeaux -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:33:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR I wonder how much of Hobby Lobby's inventory comes from child laborers and/or sweatshops. Oh isn't that scurrilious attack so typical of the left. Make a personal attack in the absence of evidence. Base, vile, lies and innuendo. Hobby Lobby has been touting its "Christian values" as the basis of its opposition to the ACA. So it's far from scurrilous to ask if those values guide the firm's conduct in other areas as well. Jesus warned, after all, "Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them" (Mt 6:1a). Hobby Lobby claims to "[honor] the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles." By that yardstick, the company's own, asking if those operations include profiting from child labor and inhumane conditions is entirely relevant. Oh, and isn't your pathetic attack so typical of the right--full of fury and hysteria and condemnation, with not a single fact in the whole post? No actually. Its a character attack akin to "Senator, when did you stop beating your wife". First you have no right to know anything about Hobby Lobby's business practices. Second you have no knowledge of Hobby Lobby engaging in using "sweat shops" and make the allegations in the absence of any kind of evidence. Your purpose therefore is not to inquire a damn thing. Its to blacken the name of someone you don't know without basis.

dcnovice -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 2:39:51 PM)
quote: No actually. Its a character attack akin to "Senator, when did you stop beating your wife". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

DomKen -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 3:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If SCOTUS rules in favor of Hobby Lobby these things will then be allowed: Health plans that only allow faith healers (Christian scientist owned corporations) Health plans that do not allow blood transfusions (JW owned corps.) And virtually anything else as there is no limit on what could be claimed is a religious liberty under RFRA. Except thats just bullshit. Except of course it isn't.

DomKen -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 3:37:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR I wonder how much of Hobby Lobby's inventory comes from child laborers and/or sweatshops. Oh isn't that scurrilious attack so typical of the left. Make a personal attack in the absence of evidence. Base, vile, lies and innuendo. Hobby Lobby has been touting its "Christian values" as the basis of its opposition to the ACA. So it's far from scurrilous to ask if those values guide the firm's conduct in other areas as well. Jesus warned, after all, "Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them" (Mt 6:1a). Hobby Lobby claims to "[honor] the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles." By that yardstick, the company's own, asking if those operations include profiting from child labor and inhumane conditions is entirely relevant. Oh, and isn't your pathetic attack so typical of the right--full of fury and hysteria and condemnation, with not a single fact in the whole post? No actually. Its a character attack akin to "Senator, when did you stop beating your wife". First you have no right to know anything about Hobby Lobby's business practices. Second you have no knowledge of Hobby Lobby engaging in using "sweat shops" and make the allegations in the absence of any kind of evidence. Your purpose therefore is not to inquire a damn thing. Its to blacken the name of someone you don't know without basis. No. Hobby Lobby sells low cost goods of the sort usually made in factories generally called sweat shops. So it is entirely appropriate to inquire whether they have taken steps to keep their ethical standards in their supply chain. Of course the fact is they buy much of their product line from china so we know their ethical standards stop at their employee's vaginas. http://www.usnews.com/opinion/leslie-marshall/2014/03/26/hobby-lobbys-china-hypocrisy

GotSteel -> RE: Ok....A thread about a REAL (as in reality)threat to our liberty.... (3/27/2014 3:53:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 If yes,it`s going to open Pandora`s box and worse.....it`s going to cut both ways........ Holy crap I need to get some Jesus urinals made asap.....the posibilities are mind blowing.

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