Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Lucylastic -> Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/7/2014 1:55:26 PM)

On Tuesday, the Congressional Budget Office projected that The Affordable Care Act will reduce the number of full-time workers by 2.3 million in 2021, leading critics to seize on the claim as evidence that the health care law is undermining job growth.

But that’s not what the CBO actually said. In fact, CBO economists write that
quote:

The estimated reduction [in labor] stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses’ demand for labor.
Americans won’t be losing their jobs, but people who are only working to maintain access to their employer sponsored health insurance plans will be able to leave the workforce or work fewer hours because they can obtain coverage elsewhere. That’s a goal that prominent Republicans, conservative think tanks and policy analysts have supported for years:


– “A lot of people change their jobs. So the tax benefit should change and go with them, and not be attached to their jobs. We want to address job lock. So, the key question that ought to be addressed in any health care reform legislation, is are we going to continue job lock, or are we going to allow individuals more choice, and portability to fit the 21st century workforce?” [Paul Ryan, 5/20/2009]

– “Today, leaving a job or changing jobs means leav­ing behind the health insurance provided at the place of work. Individuals who wish to take a better job, change careers, or leave the workforce to raise a family or to retire early take substantial risks. [...] Under the McCain plan, which links tax breaks directly to individuals instead of to their place of work, individuals would no longer feel obligated to stay with their employers simply because they need to keep their employer-based health insurance. [Heritage Foundation, 10/15/2008]

– “Of course there are a number of things that I like in health care reform that I’m going to put in place…. I also want individuals to be able to buy insurance, health insurance, on their own as opposed to only being able to get it on a tax advantage basis through their company.” [Mitt Romney, 9/9/2012]
– “[T]he employer-based system leads to ‘job lock,’ whereby people are afraid to leave their jobs if they fall ill on the job, because switching plans could mean higher premiums or denial of coverage.” [Avik Roy, former health care adviser to Mitt Romney, 2/7/2012]

In other words, ensuring that an older person who stays in a job for its health care coverage can retire sooner or that a mother can leave her job to take care of a sick child, or an entrepreneur can can quit secure employment and start a new business have long been bipartisan goals. Democrats have sought to give Americans more options though the health care law’s exchanges and Medicaid expansion while Republican health care proposals focus on ending the favorable tax treatment of employer-sponsored health care and providing individuals with tax credits to buy their own health insurance on the individual market, across state lines.

Academic research has quantified the cost of keeping health care coverage connected to the workplace. In 2008, researchers at Harvard estimated that there are “11 million people who would like to change jobs but are locked into their current job simply to keep their insurance,” while other studies have found that “job-to-job mobility is estimated to increase by as much as 25 percent when alternative group coverage is available.”

As Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) explained in 2008, while rolling out the health care proposal that animated his presidential campaign, “‘job lock’ reduces opportunities for American workers because they often pass up new jobs for fear of losing their health care coverage.” The health care law will start to change that predicament.

UPDATE
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) who called the CBO findings “unreal” has long been an advocate of disconnecting health care insurance from employment. As he wrote in 2013, “It’s common sense to recognize that Obamacare isn’t working. We need to repeal it entirely, and instead reform federal law to expand choices and make health plans personal, portable and affordable.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/02/04/3249671/obamacare-job-lock/



thoughts anyone???
this is like romneys plan turned into obamacare, now the freedom from having to work for an employer they lie to get employer insurance about and malign, they liked it not just 2-4 years ago.





subrob1967 -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/7/2014 3:34:49 PM)

Blah blah bla blah blah blahhhh... Newsflash Lucy, the people who will be able to work less will be the ones being subsidized by the rest of us full time workers, and young healthy people who are refusing to pay "their fair share". You might believe in the man behind the curtain, but really, who the fuck cares"? You aren't a US citizen.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/7/2014 3:44:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

On Tuesday, the Congressional Budget Office projected that The Affordable Care Act will reduce the number of full-time workers by 2.3 million in 2021, leading critics to seize on the claim as evidence that the health care law is undermining job growth.

But that’s not what the CBO actually said. In fact, CBO economists write that
quote:

The estimated reduction [in labor] stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses’ demand for labor.
Americans won’t be losing their jobs, but people who are only working to maintain access to their employer sponsored health insurance plans will be able to leave the workforce or work fewer hours because they can obtain coverage elsewhere. That’s a goal that prominent Republicans, conservative think tanks and policy analysts have supported for years:


– “A lot of people change their jobs. So the tax benefit should change and go with them, and not be attached to their jobs. We want to address job lock. So, the key question that ought to be addressed in any health care reform legislation, is are we going to continue job lock, or are we going to allow individuals more choice, and portability to fit the 21st century workforce?” [Paul Ryan, 5/20/2009]

– “Today, leaving a job or changing jobs means leav­ing behind the health insurance provided at the place of work. Individuals who wish to take a better job, change careers, or leave the workforce to raise a family or to retire early take substantial risks. [...] Under the McCain plan, which links tax breaks directly to individuals instead of to their place of work, individuals would no longer feel obligated to stay with their employers simply because they need to keep their employer-based health insurance. [Heritage Foundation, 10/15/2008]

– “Of course there are a number of things that I like in health care reform that I’m going to put in place…. I also want individuals to be able to buy insurance, health insurance, on their own as opposed to only being able to get it on a tax advantage basis through their company.” [Mitt Romney, 9/9/2012]
– “[T]he employer-based system leads to ‘job lock,’ whereby people are afraid to leave their jobs if they fall ill on the job, because switching plans could mean higher premiums or denial of coverage.” [Avik Roy, former health care adviser to Mitt Romney, 2/7/2012]

In other words, ensuring that an older person who stays in a job for its health care coverage can retire sooner or that a mother can leave her job to take care of a sick child, or an entrepreneur can can quit secure employment and start a new business have long been bipartisan goals. Democrats have sought to give Americans more options though the health care law’s exchanges and Medicaid expansion while Republican health care proposals focus on ending the favorable tax treatment of employer-sponsored health care and providing individuals with tax credits to buy their own health insurance on the individual market, across state lines.

Academic research has quantified the cost of keeping health care coverage connected to the workplace. In 2008, researchers at Harvard estimated that there are “11 million people who would like to change jobs but are locked into their current job simply to keep their insurance,” while other studies have found that “job-to-job mobility is estimated to increase by as much as 25 percent when alternative group coverage is available.”

As Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) explained in 2008, while rolling out the health care proposal that animated his presidential campaign, “‘job lock’ reduces opportunities for American workers because they often pass up new jobs for fear of losing their health care coverage.” The health care law will start to change that predicament.

UPDATE
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) who called the CBO findings “unreal” has long been an advocate of disconnecting health care insurance from employment. As he wrote in 2013, “It’s common sense to recognize that Obamacare isn’t working. We need to repeal it entirely, and instead reform federal law to expand choices and make health plans personal, portable and affordable.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/02/04/3249671/obamacare-job-lock/



thoughts anyone???
this is like romneys plan turned into obamacare, now the freedom from having to work for an employer they lie to get employer insurance about and malign, they liked it not just 2-4 years ago.




Wow. I'm for the second time in my entire life...speechless.




Owner59 -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/7/2014 4:50:35 PM)



There are some republicans Lucy, that aren`t sophisticated enough to understand what job lock is and we really shouldn`t care either way.


However for those who do want to understand what the CBO was talking about....


http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-6-2014/terror-on-bulls--t-mountain


Most illustrative, the tape of BS master Paul Ryan pretending to be against job-lock BEFORE the ACA law.....

Then a montage of rightists ridiculing the ACA`s reduction of job-lock....






Lucylastic -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/7/2014 5:40:36 PM)

Stewart has it nailed as usual




VideoAdminGamma -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 9:55:45 AM)

Whether someone is a US citizen or not, they can comment anywhere on these forums as long as it is within TOS and Community Guidelines.

If you have any questions you can contact me or Chi. Do not reply to this post.

Thanks,
Gamma



quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Blah blah bla blah blah blahhhh... Newsflash Lucy, the people who will be able to work less will be the ones being subsidized by the rest of us full time workers, and young healthy people who are refusing to pay "their fair share". You might believe in the man behind the curtain, but really, who the fuck cares"? You aren't a US citizen.





FellowSlave -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 11:08:13 AM)

The problem is there are too many reasons not to invest in actual productive job-creating business in North America. Obamacare was the last nail into the coffin.
Even reducing business tax would not help as money is not a problem: big businesses are hoarding cash. Obamacare wouldn't be so big deal; the problem is it came the wrong time. I blame Obama total economic illiteracy for that. I do not think his intentions are to destroy America (as some suggest), he needed healthcare to collect some political capital for fulfilling election campaign promise. Who needs a job need to dig in and survive somehow, and wait until Obama retires.




Moonhead -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 11:28:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FellowSlave
I do not think his intentions are to destroy America (as some suggest), he needed healthcare to collect some political capital for fulfilling election campaign promise.

Why does he need that? He can't stand again, can he?




FellowSlave -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 11:58:41 AM)

quote:

Why does he need that? He can't stand again, can he?

It was his first term "achievement". He may stay for the third term as well (via. executive order).
I find Obama apologist party funny:
Consider this P. Krugman statement:
"If you lose your job, you suffer immense personal and financial hardship. If, on the other hand, you choose to work less and spend more time with your family, “we don’t sympathize. We say congratulations.” "
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/07/opinion/krugman-health-work-lies.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0

They do not choose you idiot millionaire, they are forced to look for an extra part time work.




Moonhead -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 12:03:26 PM)

So why wasn't he chased out of office in 2012 if he'd lready destroyed America by signing the ACA into hideously unconstitutional law, then?




Tkman117 -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 2:30:18 PM)

Looking forward to seeing an answer to that ^^ XD




RemoteUser -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 2:38:52 PM)

One thing this doesn't seem to comment on, which I've heard from a number of my American friends with low-paying jobs, is that standardizing health care also means fixing prices. It used to be that a person without care who paid out of pocket might be able to cut a deal with the physician and pay less. That's not an option anymore.

So while job growth is not undermined, perhaps quality is, and those with only a little, might find themselves in a deeper hole than those with and those without.




Tkman117 -> RE: Obamacare Gives Workers The Freedom Conservatives Demanded (2/8/2014 4:09:08 PM)

Why would they need to cut a deal when the insurance under the ACA pays for the costs anyway? Regardless of the price?

Not to mention that there is NO reason why their health care system should be as expensive as it is. They can claim superior health care all they want, there isn't much of a difference between them and Canadian health care. Ask any Canadian if they don't like the current health care system and they'll likely say the waiting sucks and that it isn't the best. Then ask them if they'd rather have a system like the USA, and the majority would instantly say no. Waiting is one thing, paying 4x the cost for something that could save your life but could also bankrupt you is something else all together.




Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875