Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (1/31/2014 5:17:55 PM)

Yeah. They've changed.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2014/01/23/world_powers_surrender_to_iran.html




Owner59 -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (1/31/2014 7:19:57 PM)

Makes one wonder why St. Ronnie sold them high-tech weapons shortly after these terrorists.... killed 241 of our men in Beirut....


[image]http://www.whale.to/c/u64q7kg3marine.jpg[/image]




tweakabelle -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (1/31/2014 9:30:18 PM)

You are not in a strong position to whinge Phydeaux.

Recently your Govt sent a lot more than flowers to the funeral of the region's biggest baddest bloodiest terrorist - Ariel Sharon the butcher of Beirut. Your Govt chose to commemorate this thug's passing by sending Vice-President Biden to the funeral. I believe Biden expressed regret at Sharon's passing .... on behalf of your nation.

If you wish to assert that Obama has his priorities all wrong, I can only agree with you. I suspect we would disagree on why this is so, and how those priorities ought to be re-ordered ......




farglebargle -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (1/31/2014 9:50:22 PM)

Everyone remembers when Peter King provided material support to the IRA terrorists who killed Americans in the London department store bombings, right?




Owner59 -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (1/31/2014 9:52:10 PM)

Congressmen King?




farglebargle -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (1/31/2014 9:54:40 PM)

I prefer Unindicted co-conspirator, but yeah, that's the piece of shit American murdering terrorist fund-raiser.




Politesub53 -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/1/2014 4:50:45 AM)

Ah, those sweet fundraisers from Noraid. How fine it was to see those IRA Terrorists leading the St Patricks day parades.

Phydeaux loves to conflate rhetoric aimed at Irans home audience with reality.




Marc2b -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/2/2014 4:07:11 AM)

quote:

Your Govt chose to commemorate this thug's passing by sending Vice-President Biden to the funeral.


And your government sent Foreign Minister Julie Bishop. So what? That's just governments going through the diplomatic motions. It is meaningless. Just as meaningless as someone laying a wreath.




Moonhead -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/2/2014 8:21:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Ah, those sweet fundraisers from Noraid. How fine it was to see those IRA Terrorists leading the St Patricks day parades.

Phydeaux loves to conflate rhetoric aimed at Irans home audience with reality.

Not to mention the spectacle of Clinton and the chimp wining and dining the leader of Sinn Fein...




Owner59 -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/2/2014 9:25:40 AM)

So we want that war endless civil back.....eh?



I for one am ok with it over.




Moonhead -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/2/2014 9:28:44 AM)

No, we just don't want the people who bankrolled said civil war bitching about terrorists who blew up their countrymen, while having no issue with paying for other terrorists to blow up people elsewhere.




tweakabelle -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/2/2014 5:40:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Your Govt chose to commemorate this thug's passing by sending Vice-President Biden to the funeral.


And your government sent Foreign Minister Julie Bishop. So what? That's just governments going through the diplomatic motions. It is meaningless. Just as meaningless as someone laying a wreath.

It would be preferable if the US's and Australian Govts gestures were "meaningless" and merely "going through the diplomatic motions". Unfortunately, these gestures will be interpreted for what they are - gestures of approval for Israeli State terrorism, and for Sharon, the individual who probably has more blood on his hands than any other individual on either side of the history of the conflict.

It is not acceptable to adopt the position that "our" terrorists are fine upstanding civilised heroes whle "their" terrrorists are vile subhumans who deserve universal condemnation. That self evident double standard is a tell tale sign of hypocrisy at work.




Marc2b -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/2/2014 7:07:40 PM)

quote:

That self evident double standard is a tell tale sign of hypocrisy at work.


Welcome to the human race. That self same hypocrisy is why such symbolism is meaningless. Everyone knows that certain customs, ceremonies and rituals are bullshit but they are performed anyway
because it is what people have always done or because they need to reassure their own lies to their self. People just going through the motions is just that. It is not interpreted by anyone as anything other than that
(although, they will lie about it if asked because that too is expected). It is when someone breaks away from the usual routine that people take notice and give consideration to other possibilities. President Obama sending a gay
delegation to the Olympics (in your face, Putin!) is a good example.




tweakabelle -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/2/2014 8:31:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

That self evident double standard is a tell tale sign of hypocrisy at work.


Welcome to the human race. That self same hypocrisy is why such symbolism is meaningless. Everyone knows that certain customs, ceremonies and rituals are bullshit but they are performed anyway
because it is what people have always done or because they need to reassure their own lies to their self. People just going through the motions is just that. It is not interpreted by anyone as anything other than that
(although, they will lie about it if asked because that too is expected). It is when someone breaks away from the usual routine that people take notice and give consideration to other possibilities. President Obama sending a gay
delegation to the Olympics (in your face, Putin!) is a good example.

There's some merit in your argument. But it overlooks a basic fact - symbolism isn't and can never be meaningless. Symbols may be insincere, empty, or merely rhetorical. But they are never devoid of meaning. Meaning is their raison d'etre

The meaning is not found in the symbol itself, but what it represents in a given context and how it is interpreted. A national flag is really nothing more than a piece of coloured cloth. But wars have been fought over those pieces of coloured cloth. Person A laying flowers on a grave, or mourning at a funeral service of Person B is not symbolic of anything beyond personal grief and sympathy.

However, if Person A happens to be a Foreign Minister or Vice-President (and therefore a symbol of the entire nation they represent) and Person B happens to be a terrorist with a history of brutality and uncompromising violence stretching back over half a century, this symbolic act is fraught with meaning. It represents the nation's ongoing stamp of approval for the goals and/or acts of said terrorist. It is support for terrorist violence.

No player of any consequence in the Palestinian/Isreali conflict will interpret the acts of the various Foreign Ministers/Vice-Pesidents differently.




Marc2b -> RE: Iran leader lays wreath on terrorists grave (2/4/2014 7:35:24 PM)

quote:

No player of any consequence in the Palestinian/Isreali conflict will interpret the acts of the various Foreign Ministers/Vice-Pesidents differently.


The hatred is so intense, the hearts so hard, on both sides of the conflict that such symbolism, negative or positive, isn't going to much of a difference in people's perception of the other. Perhaps after a generation or two of consistently good symbolism,
so I guess you could argue that it is time to start. But in the long years of enmity and atrocity to yet to come, who the attendees of one funeral were isn't going to amount to much.




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