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I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 4:25:54 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.

quote:



In 70 seconds, a family’s world was turned upside down. According to 911 calls, it took only 70 seconds after Southport police squad car 104 arrived at 1130 President Road in Boiling Spring Lakes on Sunday for its occupant to shoot an 18-year-old in the chest as he lay on the floor.

After the events of that minute and ten seconds, a family now stands outraged and in mourning, while a community, nation and now world are also in shock over the event.

Meanwhile, a previously trusted officer faces serious questions of his actions during those 70 seconds.

With two officers on top of him and his stepfather looking on, the teenager, Keith Vidal, who stood 5-foot-3 and weighed 90 pounds at best, took a bullet to his chest. He would soon die.
Source


Now I can see no reason why, if the man was being restrained on the ground by two officers, a third officer felt the need to shot the man.

Either the victim was super humanly strong and was about to through the two officers restraining him through a wall or something, or somebody over reacted.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 5:34:28 AM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		Then he was murdered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.

quote:



In 70 seconds, a family’s world was turned upside down. According to 911 calls, it took only 70 seconds after Southport police squad car 104 arrived at 1130 President Road in Boiling Spring Lakes on Sunday for its occupant to shoot an 18-year-old in the chest as he lay on the floor.

After the events of that minute and ten seconds, a family now stands outraged and in mourning, while a community, nation and now world are also in shock over the event.

Meanwhile, a previously trusted officer faces serious questions of his actions during those 70 seconds.

With two officers on top of him and his stepfather looking on, the teenager, Keith Vidal, who stood 5-foot-3 and weighed 90 pounds at best, took a bullet to his chest. He would soon die.
Source


Now I can see no reason why, if the man was being restrained on the ground by two officers, a third officer felt the need to shot the man.

Either the victim was super humanly strong and was about to through the two officers restraining him through a wall or something, or somebody over reacted.


(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 6:25:36 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.
The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.
quote:

In 70 seconds, a family’s world was turned upside down. According to 911 calls, it took only 70 seconds after Southport police squad car 104 arrived at 1130 President Road in Boiling Spring Lakes on Sunday for its occupant to shoot an 18-year-old in the chest as he lay on the floor.
After the events of that minute and ten seconds, a family now stands outraged and in mourning, while a community, nation and now world are also in shock over the event.
Meanwhile, a previously trusted officer faces serious questions of his actions during those 70 seconds.
With two officers on top of him and his stepfather looking on, the teenager, Keith Vidal, who stood 5-foot-3 and weighed 90 pounds at best, took a bullet to his chest. He would soon die.
Source

Now I can see no reason why, if the man was being restrained on the ground by two officers, a third officer felt the need to shot the man.
Either the victim was super humanly strong and was about to through the two officers restraining him through a wall or something, or somebody over reacted.


Not enough info out yet. It doesn't look good, from this story, for the Detective. If there truly was no reason to shoot the kid, then I agree with MSMJAY, the kid was murdered. Too early to pronounce that yet.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 7:33:14 AM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		There was a similar incident in Oakland a few years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esKcGWMX5BM If I remember right, the officer in question "claimed" that he thought he had pulled his taser instead of his service pistol. I agree with DS here...not enough info yet.

_____________________________

If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!

Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 10:05:40 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw

Or this

Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)

For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:

1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?

I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 11:17:46 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw
Or this
Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)
For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:
1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?
I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.


Are you sure what you are reading are the facts?

While I'm not saying they aren't the facts, there may be much more to this story than has been reported thus far. Think back to the storyline and changing news reports surrounding the Zimmerman situation.

It might be worthwhile to just step back and let things calm down a little bit and let investigators do their jobs before we mete out Justice.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 11:26:48 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		The one point that has not been disputed is all I need to hear, he was on the floor with two officers restraining him.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 11:29:12 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		From what I understand there were three officers from three different departments there, so I seriously doubt the other two officers would turn a blind eye to the third murdering this guy in cold blood while they were restraining him.


There's more to the story we really don't know, why not wait before finding the shooter guilty before his trial?

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 8:20:00 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.


I'm really afraid this is going to happen to my mentally ill brother some day :(

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 8:52:34 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		There is a reason why, Jlf. We have cops on the job who should be taken out back and shot, and a lot more cops who will turn a blind eye to what they do.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 8:57:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw

Or this

Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)

For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:

1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?

I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.

I have read that he broke loose.
And the stories don't fir well. We need a lot more info before we declare it murder, or justified.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 9:03:02 PM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There is a reason why, Jlf. We have cops on the job who should be taken out back and shot, and a lot more cops who will turn a blind eye to what they do.



There is far more truth to this statement than you realize.

_____________________________

Bill

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 9:08:03 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		Cops are like some doctors................they close ranks and if that doesn't work, they bury their mistakes

(in reply to FelineRanger)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 10:52:53 PM   
FellowSlave


Posts: 97
Joined: 11/23/2013
Status: offline
quote:

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.


There were two reasons the young man was held down to be shot. At first, an average policeman is bad shooter, the target must be close; secondly, they are instructed to kill not to disable (because of legal problems; dead men do not talk).
The police is very dangerous, many are mentally ill or unstable, it is much more likely to be killed by the police than by the terrorist. Recently a policeman shot and killed a young man, an innocent bystander, because he did not like his body language.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/8/2014 11:25:17 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The one point that has not been disputed is all I need to hear, he was on the floor with two officers restraining him.


Have we heard from the cops and investigators that this is indeed what happened? There is a difference between supporting a given tale and not disputing it (one could "not dispute" it by not making any statement).

This is going to be cold, but, the kid is dead. He's going to be dead for a good bit of time. There is no need to run the cop up a pole right now. Best to wait and get it right. If it's right to run him up a pole, then by all means, run him up a pole. Just make sure you're right.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/9/2014 2:02:51 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FellowSlave
quote:

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.


There were two reasons the young man was held down to be shot. At first, an average policeman is bad shooter, the target must be close; secondly, they are instructed to kill not to disable (because of legal problems; dead men do not talk).
The police is very dangerous, many are mentally ill or unstable, it is much more likely to be killed by the police than by the terrorist. Recently a policeman shot and killed a young man, an innocent bystander, because he did not like his body language.


If your looking for the 'mentally unstable', try the mirror in your bathroom first.

Your stating that ALL police officers are not only dangerous, but many of them mentally ill and/or unstable. Given the amount of regulations, rules, and laws, police would be one of the last groups to suffer from mental illness. Yes, mental illness can strike anyone, at anytime, for any reason. Yet, police are trained to be observant, its part of their job. They would be more likely to notice if one of their own is behaving oddly and if a friend, get them out of the situation before things got ugly.

You are not bound by even 1/10,000 of the rules police are under. How do we know your not mentally ill or unstable? Since only an insane person would state all police are dangerous and of that group, most of them are mentally ill or unstable. Its called 'paranoia' and/or 'delusion'. Both are pretty serious illnesses.

Your accusation is even further silly. Your practically accusing all three police officers of being mentally unstable. What would the plain odds of three police officers, from different jurisdictions, arriving at one place. An conspiring to kill some kid? That is your argument on display.

(in reply to FellowSlave)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/9/2014 1:18:08 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw
Or this
Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)
For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:
1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?
I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.


Are you sure what you are reading are the facts?

While I'm not saying they aren't the facts, there may be much more to this story than has been reported thus far. Think back to the storyline and changing news reports surrounding the Zimmerman situation.

It might be worthwhile to just step back and let things calm down a little bit and let investigators do their jobs before we mete out Justice.



Yepper.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/12/2014 8:32:44 PM   
youdneverknowit


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/21/2012
Status: offline 		Beginning to think that someone on here might be a cop.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/13/2014 7:48:50 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Oh no - how awful it would be if we had a cop on cm. The world as we know it would come to an end.

and I don't know about the whole world, but in my little part of it, to get into the police academy, the candidates have to pass a psychological exam. No passee, no ticketee.

I was married to a cop for 13 years. He was an arrogant asshole who was a hell of a lot nicer to his criminals than to his family - BUT I can safely say he was a hell of a cop, and was there to help people. In fact, every cop I knew was out there to help. None of them got up in the morning and polished their bullets with the intent on killing someone. A lot of them were jaded, disillusioned and thought the worst of everyone, because over their careers that's what they had seen, but they still didn't go out with the intent to kill people.

in other words, before we crucify this cop, perhaps we should get the facts - not the information published in a newspaper, because we all know that the "news" is biased - or flat out constructed out of whole cloth.

and while we're at it, I didn't know one cop who was jonesing to shoot someone - and when it did happen, like most people, they were horrified and devastated. Marriages broke up - which pretty much proves my point that they might be dysfunctional human beings but they are still human.

and thus ends my yearly rant about how cops are people too - and not crazed psychopathic killers just waiting for an opportunity to kill as many people as they can get away with..............

(in reply to youdneverknowit)
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RE: I am at a loss to understand. - 1/13/2014 11:58:25 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		And you got that from 'wait until all the facts are in'?




quote:

ORIGINAL: youdneverknowit

Beginning to think that someone on here might be a cop.



_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to youdneverknowit)
Profile   Post #: 20
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