I am at a loss to understand. (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 4:25:54 AM)

A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.

quote:



In 70 seconds, a family’s world was turned upside down. According to 911 calls, it took only 70 seconds after Southport police squad car 104 arrived at 1130 President Road in Boiling Spring Lakes on Sunday for its occupant to shoot an 18-year-old in the chest as he lay on the floor.

After the events of that minute and ten seconds, a family now stands outraged and in mourning, while a community, nation and now world are also in shock over the event.

Meanwhile, a previously trusted officer faces serious questions of his actions during those 70 seconds.

With two officers on top of him and his stepfather looking on, the teenager, Keith Vidal, who stood 5-foot-3 and weighed 90 pounds at best, took a bullet to his chest. He would soon die.
Source


Now I can see no reason why, if the man was being restrained on the ground by two officers, a third officer felt the need to shot the man.

Either the victim was super humanly strong and was about to through the two officers restraining him through a wall or something, or somebody over reacted.



MsMJAY -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 5:34:28 AM)

Then he was murdered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.

quote:



In 70 seconds, a family’s world was turned upside down. According to 911 calls, it took only 70 seconds after Southport police squad car 104 arrived at 1130 President Road in Boiling Spring Lakes on Sunday for its occupant to shoot an 18-year-old in the chest as he lay on the floor.

After the events of that minute and ten seconds, a family now stands outraged and in mourning, while a community, nation and now world are also in shock over the event.

Meanwhile, a previously trusted officer faces serious questions of his actions during those 70 seconds.

With two officers on top of him and his stepfather looking on, the teenager, Keith Vidal, who stood 5-foot-3 and weighed 90 pounds at best, took a bullet to his chest. He would soon die.
Source


Now I can see no reason why, if the man was being restrained on the ground by two officers, a third officer felt the need to shot the man.

Either the victim was super humanly strong and was about to through the two officers restraining him through a wall or something, or somebody over reacted.




DesideriScuri -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 6:25:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.
The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.
quote:

In 70 seconds, a family’s world was turned upside down. According to 911 calls, it took only 70 seconds after Southport police squad car 104 arrived at 1130 President Road in Boiling Spring Lakes on Sunday for its occupant to shoot an 18-year-old in the chest as he lay on the floor.
After the events of that minute and ten seconds, a family now stands outraged and in mourning, while a community, nation and now world are also in shock over the event.
Meanwhile, a previously trusted officer faces serious questions of his actions during those 70 seconds.
With two officers on top of him and his stepfather looking on, the teenager, Keith Vidal, who stood 5-foot-3 and weighed 90 pounds at best, took a bullet to his chest. He would soon die.
Source

Now I can see no reason why, if the man was being restrained on the ground by two officers, a third officer felt the need to shot the man.
Either the victim was super humanly strong and was about to through the two officers restraining him through a wall or something, or somebody over reacted.


Not enough info out yet. It doesn't look good, from this story, for the Detective. If there truly was no reason to shoot the kid, then I agree with MSMJAY, the kid was murdered. Too early to pronounce that yet.



igor2003 -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 7:33:14 AM)

There was a similar incident in Oakland a few years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esKcGWMX5BM If I remember right, the officer in question "claimed" that he thought he had pulled his taser instead of his service pistol. I agree with DS here...not enough info yet.



jlf1961 -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 10:05:40 AM)

Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw

Or this

Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)

For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:

1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?

I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.



DesideriScuri -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 11:17:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw
Or this
Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)
For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:
1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?
I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.


Are you sure what you are reading are the facts?

While I'm not saying they aren't the facts, there may be much more to this story than has been reported thus far. Think back to the storyline and changing news reports surrounding the Zimmerman situation.

It might be worthwhile to just step back and let things calm down a little bit and let investigators do their jobs before we mete out Justice.



jlf1961 -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 11:26:48 AM)

The one point that has not been disputed is all I need to hear, he was on the floor with two officers restraining him.



subrob1967 -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 11:29:12 AM)

From what I understand there were three officers from three different departments there, so I seriously doubt the other two officers would turn a blind eye to the third murdering this guy in cold blood while they were restraining him.


There's more to the story we really don't know, why not wait before finding the shooter guilty before his trial?



kalikshama -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 8:20:00 PM)

quote:

A mentally ill 18 year old man was shot by a police officer in North Carolina.


I'm really afraid this is going to happen to my mentally ill brother some day :(



TheHeretic -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 8:52:34 PM)

There is a reason why, Jlf. We have cops on the job who should be taken out back and shot, and a lot more cops who will turn a blind eye to what they do.




BamaD -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 8:57:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw

Or this

Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)

For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:

1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?

I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.

I have read that he broke loose.
And the stories don't fir well. We need a lot more info before we declare it murder, or justified.



FelineRanger -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 9:03:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There is a reason why, Jlf. We have cops on the job who should be taken out back and shot, and a lot more cops who will turn a blind eye to what they do.



There is far more truth to this statement than you realize.



Dvr22999874 -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 9:08:03 PM)

Cops are like some doctors................they close ranks and if that doesn't work, they bury their mistakes



FellowSlave -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 10:52:53 PM)

quote:

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.


There were two reasons the young man was held down to be shot. At first, an average policeman is bad shooter, the target must be close; secondly, they are instructed to kill not to disable (because of legal problems; dead men do not talk).
The police is very dangerous, many are mentally ill or unstable, it is much more likely to be killed by the police than by the terrorist. Recently a policeman shot and killed a young man, an innocent bystander, because he did not like his body language.



DesideriScuri -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/8/2014 11:25:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The one point that has not been disputed is all I need to hear, he was on the floor with two officers restraining him.


Have we heard from the cops and investigators that this is indeed what happened? There is a difference between supporting a given tale and not disputing it (one could "not dispute" it by not making any statement).

This is going to be cold, but, the kid is dead. He's going to be dead for a good bit of time. There is no need to run the cop up a pole right now. Best to wait and get it right. If it's right to run him up a pole, then by all means, run him up a pole. Just make sure you're right.



joether -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/9/2014 2:02:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FellowSlave
quote:

The problem, is that when this young man was shot in the chest, he was on the ground with two other officers holding him down.


There were two reasons the young man was held down to be shot. At first, an average policeman is bad shooter, the target must be close; secondly, they are instructed to kill not to disable (because of legal problems; dead men do not talk).
The police is very dangerous, many are mentally ill or unstable, it is much more likely to be killed by the police than by the terrorist. Recently a policeman shot and killed a young man, an innocent bystander, because he did not like his body language.


If your looking for the 'mentally unstable', try the mirror in your bathroom first.

Your stating that ALL police officers are not only dangerous, but many of them mentally ill and/or unstable. Given the amount of regulations, rules, and laws, police would be one of the last groups to suffer from mental illness. Yes, mental illness can strike anyone, at anytime, for any reason. Yet, police are trained to be observant, its part of their job. They would be more likely to notice if one of their own is behaving oddly and if a friend, get them out of the situation before things got ugly.

You are not bound by even 1/10,000 of the rules police are under. How do we know your not mentally ill or unstable? Since only an insane person would state all police are dangerous and of that group, most of them are mentally ill or unstable. Its called 'paranoia' and/or 'delusion'. Both are pretty serious illnesses.

Your accusation is even further silly. Your practically accusing all three police officers of being mentally unstable. What would the plain odds of three police officers, from different jurisdictions, arriving at one place. An conspiring to kill some kid? That is your argument on display.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/9/2014 1:18:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Uh, well there is this Keith Vidal death update: Authorities investigating officer's shooting of teen in North Carolina Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/keith-vidal-death-update-authorities-investigating-officers-shooting-of-teen-in-north-carolina#ixzz2ppZilHxw
Or this
Kieth weighed in at 90 pounds, so the fact he was a large, muscular 18 year old male with schizophrenia must be taken into account. So it is entirely possible that although he was restrained by two other officers, there was a good chance he was about to break free and attack the detective with the gun. (please note the sarcasm in this statement)
For those needing more facts, I have to ask the following:
1) Since the suspect was being restrained on the floor, what possible threat was there?
I mean a 90 pound male being restrained by two police officers, give me a break.


Are you sure what you are reading are the facts?

While I'm not saying they aren't the facts, there may be much more to this story than has been reported thus far. Think back to the storyline and changing news reports surrounding the Zimmerman situation.

It might be worthwhile to just step back and let things calm down a little bit and let investigators do their jobs before we mete out Justice.



Yepper.



youdneverknowit -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/12/2014 8:32:44 PM)

Beginning to think that someone on here might be a cop.



kiwisub12 -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/13/2014 7:48:50 AM)

Oh no - how awful it would be if we had a cop on cm. The world as we know it would come to an end. [8|]

and I don't know about the whole world, but in my little part of it, to get into the police academy, the candidates have to pass a psychological exam. No passee, no ticketee.

I was married to a cop for 13 years. He was an arrogant asshole who was a hell of a lot nicer to his criminals than to his family - BUT I can safely say he was a hell of a cop, and was there to help people. In fact, every cop I knew was out there to help. None of them got up in the morning and polished their bullets with the intent on killing someone. A lot of them were jaded, disillusioned and thought the worst of everyone, because over their careers that's what they had seen, but they still didn't go out with the intent to kill people.

in other words, before we crucify this cop, perhaps we should get the facts - not the information published in a newspaper, because we all know that the "news" is biased - or flat out constructed out of whole cloth.

and while we're at it, I didn't know one cop who was jonesing to shoot someone - and when it did happen, like most people, they were horrified and devastated. Marriages broke up - which pretty much proves my point that they might be dysfunctional human beings but they are still human.

and thus ends my yearly rant about how cops are people too - and not crazed psychopathic killers just waiting for an opportunity to kill as many people as they can get away with..............



EdBowie -> RE: I am at a loss to understand. (1/13/2014 11:58:25 AM)

And you got that from 'wait until all the facts are in'?




quote:

ORIGINAL: youdneverknowit

Beginning to think that someone on here might be a cop.




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