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RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 6:50:15 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh yes. We should throw away a diplomatic relationship for..
for...
Buehler.. buehler?






I kinda like that we`re not doing the fascist/gop policies in the ME...like forgiving terrorist/murderer Gadhafi or helping tyrants to commit genocide on their populations....

I kinda like that WE are making our ME policy as apposed to SA making it for us.....



bush kissing,holding hands with and BOWING to Saudi king......

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 6:55:59 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		"I kinda like that we are making ME policy....."


Snicker - oh.. is that what you call it.
Saudi Arabia - our ally since their inception. Jordan. Oman. Bahrain. Egypt. Israel.

Tell me...in all of the arab middle east - can you tell me *one* country we have better relations with?
See, cause I see it as pissing away - well - basically everything since camp david accords, for .. well.. nothing.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 7:06:04 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		so you would rather appease them by looking at war with syria, and or iran?, you hate obama that much
ok never mind silly question

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 7:33:47 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

"I kinda like that we are making ME policy....."


Snicker - oh.. is that what you call it.
Saudi Arabia - our ally since their inception. Jordan. Oman. Bahrain. Egypt. Israel.

Tell me...in all of the arab middle east - can you tell me *one* country we have better relations with?
See, cause I see it as pissing away - well - basically everything since camp david accords, for .. well.. nothing.



Yeah...they stone women to death there.....I am not suggesting that`s the gop`s attraction....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/23/2013 7:34:47 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 8:21:34 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh yes. We should throw away a diplomatic relationship for..
for...
Buehler.. buehler?



For their on going support of terrorists
For their on going human rights abuses against women, homosexuals and non Muslims

Is that enough?



Snicker.

So you're going to open relationships with Iran and close them with Saudi Arabia.
Oh sure. I'd love to hear pretzel logic justifying that.

Nobody, but crazy right wingers, is talking about severing ties with anybody. Opening relations with Iran makes very good sense. The Iranian people are much more westward looking than the majority of the Arab states. Constructive engagement with Iran would serve to hasten the end of the mullah's rule and bring a natural ally back into the fold.

OTOH the Wahhabist regime in the KSA is very hostile to western civilization but happily takes our money and funnels it to terrorists. It seems more likely that we can end such support in Iran before we can in the KSA.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 8:57:49 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


Yeah...they stone women to death there...


There, in Iran, in Syria, in damn near every state in the ME except Israel.

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 10/23/2013 8:58:21 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 9:04:37 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

Fuck 'em.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 9:21:20 PM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so you would rather appease them by looking at war with syria, and or iran?, you hate obama that much
ok never mind silly question


You forget that I supported Obama in his Syrian policy. Not many other people did. What can I say.. Just when I thought even the blind squirrel found a nut - well instead of insisting on his beliefs he compromised.

With the oh so predictable results that now rebels are dying to aerosol fuel mixtures, instead of chemical weapons.
Made a big difference, eh.

And despite the beggings of the Saudis, Jordanians, French... nope, no strike. You want to force assad to the bargaining table - lob a tommy at his house. He'll be their promptly - or his successor will. Or of course Obama could have launched a predator - like he has in what -9 countries so far? Just not Syria.

So the rather predictable results - the moderate rebels are in disarray. Assad, ally of the Russians, Hezbollah, and Iran continues in power.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 9:26:32 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh yes. We should throw away a diplomatic relationship for..
for...
Buehler.. buehler?



For their on going support of terrorists
For their on going human rights abuses against women, homosexuals and non Muslims

Is that enough?



Snicker.

So you're going to open relationships with Iran and close them with Saudi Arabia.
Oh sure. I'd love to hear pretzel logic justifying that.

Nobody, but crazy right wingers, is talking about severing ties with anybody. Opening relations with Iran makes very good sense. The Iranian people are much more westward looking than the majority of the Arab states. Constructive engagement with Iran would serve to hasten the end of the mullah's rule and bring a natural ally back into the fold.

OTOH the Wahhabist regime in the KSA is very hostile to western civilization but happily takes our money and funnels it to terrorists. It seems more likely that we can end such support in Iran before we can in the KSA.



Iran called westward looking. Snicker.

This from the country that sponsored terrorists in india, bali, Thailand, Germany, France, England, and Israel that I can think about off the top of my head.

Not some bad elements in the country. The command structure *in* the RG.

The "death to America" crowd.

Very forward thinking.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/23/2013 10:17:42 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nobody, but crazy right wingers, is talking about severing ties with anybody. Opening relations with Iran makes very good sense. The Iranian people are much more westward looking than the majority of the Arab states. Constructive engagement with Iran would serve to hasten the end of the mullah's rule and bring a natural ally back into the fold.

OTOH the Wahhabist regime in the KSA is very hostile to western civilization but happily takes our money and funnels it to terrorists. It seems more likely that we can end such support in Iran before we can in the KSA.



Iran called westward looking. Snicker.

This from the country that sponsored terrorists in india, bali, Thailand, Germany, France, England, and Israel that I can think about off the top of my head.

Not some bad elements in the country. The command structure *in* the RG.

The "death to America" crowd.

Very forward thinking.

Try reading what I wrote again. The Mullahs are bad guys for sure but most Iranians are very western looking and have always been.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 12:58:20 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nobody, but crazy right wingers, is talking about severing ties with anybody. Opening relations with Iran makes very good sense. The Iranian people are much more westward looking than the majority of the Arab states. Constructive engagement with Iran would serve to hasten the end of the mullah's rule and bring a natural ally back into the fold.

OTOH the Wahhabist regime in the KSA is very hostile to western civilization but happily takes our money and funnels it to terrorists. It seems more likely that we can end such support in Iran before we can in the KSA.



Iran called westward looking. Snicker.

This from the country that sponsored terrorists in india, bali, Thailand, Germany, France, England, and Israel that I can think about off the top of my head.

Not some bad elements in the country. The command structure *in* the RG.

The "death to America" crowd.

Very forward thinking.

. The Mullahs are bad guys for sure but most Iranians are very western looking and have always been.


and you know that, how exactly?

For evidence that there is no - well you know - evidence - I'd proffer the following:

a). Iran has some of the most extensive media controls over broadcast, print & internet of any nation on the earth. In fact, second only to China. You might remember where Iran + china were trying to wrest control of the DNS servers to further tighten their grasp?

So you have no real news sources other than what the Iranian regime wants revealed.

b). Because Iran recognizes Israel way back in ... ? Oh yeah. Iran still doesn't recognize Israel. And oh what was it they said... they should get marched into the sea? Oh, yeah - and the holocaust never happened.

c). Let so western oriented that:

According to Iranian law, you may shed the blood of a bahai with impunity - Ie., not paying diyeh.


d). Religious minorities are banned from govt office, or political representation except 5 seats researved for minorities.

e). University applicant must pass an examination in Islamic theology.

f). Marriage of a muslim woman to a non muslim man are not recognized.

g). Changing religion is punishable by death.

etc etc etc/
Once again - you have NO clue what you're talking about.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 2:16:42 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

They wanted more action on Syria. They didnt get it and they are throwing a hissy fit. Say what you want about fracking but it has put the US in a position to tell the Saudis to take a flying leap.

Ps. Im no fan of Obama.


Agreed. The only thing I'd add is that the Saudis are not severing ties, but are saying that they feel more distant toward us. It might come to severing some day, but not now.


I agree with you both. This is just a storm in a teacup.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 3:58:30 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Fears that the Saudis might become best friends with the Russians are misplaced, if this report is to be believed:

"Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Apparently Putin declined the Saudi's offer. Which suggests that the Saudis have nowhere else to go. The question is whether the US and the West wishes to remain propping up the medieval Saudi potentates is another matter.

It has often been observed that US policy towards the region suffers from its support of appalling dictatorial regimes such as the Saudi one. This is an opportunity for the US and the West to adopt a policy that supports democratic forces in the region and abandon the discredited policy of propping up local strongmen and thuggish warlords.

Will the US and the West rise to the challenge? I wish I could be more optimistic.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/24/2013 3:59:14 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 4:52:31 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Are you seriously calling Al Qaeda and Ikwhan Muslimi 'democratic forces in the region'? Have you considered the possibility that the struggle is between thuggish warlords?


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Fears that the Saudis might become best friends with the Russians are misplaced, if this report is to be believed:

"Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Apparently Putin declined the Saudi's offer. Which suggests that the Saudis have nowhere else to go. The question is whether the US and the West wishes to remain propping up the medieval Saudi potentates is another matter.

It has often been observed that US policy towards the region suffers from its support of appalling dictatorial regimes such as the Saudi one. This is an opportunity for the US and the West to adopt a policy that supports democratic forces in the region and abandon the discredited policy of propping up local strongmen and thuggish warlords.

Will the US and the West rise to the challenge? I wish I could be more optimistic.


(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 5:55:33 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

and you know that, how exactly?

Day to day exposure to Persians.

quote:

For evidence that there is no - well you know - evidence - I'd proffer the following:

a). Iran has some of the most extensive media controls over broadcast, print & internet of any nation on the earth. In fact, second only to China. You might remember where Iran + china were trying to wrest control of the DNS servers to further tighten their grasp?

Might want to check into how many satellite receivers are in use in Iran. They are not as isolated as you think

As to the rest I already said the mullahs are bad guys.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 10/24/2013 5:56:34 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 7:28:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
and you know that, how exactly?

Day to day exposure to Persians.


This is a bit off-topic, but it does follow. I'm requesting information about your interactions, not making any claims of anything.

One of the guys I met over the last 2+ years (in school) has an Iranian father. According to my classmate, they do travel back to the region and still visit family there. According to him, the Iranian women don't have a problem with their treatment and get a kick out of the Western world's views that they are mistreated.

I don't know if that is true or not. If you would, please ask the Persians you are acquainted with.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 11:03:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
and you know that, how exactly?

Day to day exposure to Persians.


This is a bit off-topic, but it does follow. I'm requesting information about your interactions, not making any claims of anything.

One of the guys I met over the last 2+ years (in school) has an Iranian father. According to my classmate, they do travel back to the region and still visit family there. According to him, the Iranian women don't have a problem with their treatment and get a kick out of the Western world's views that they are mistreated.

I don't know if that is true or not. If you would, please ask the Persians you are acquainted with.


I've talked to some about this issue.

Some women don't mind being made to wear the hijab and some do. Beyond that women in Iran apparently have few restrictions, since the late 90's when a reformer was President. I know 2 young Persian women who sometimes wear a headscarf here, mostly on Fridays or as a fashion thing, who have traveled back to Iran several times over the years with their family and they've had no trouble. They are amused by the obsession over the hijab here. I was out with their father, I've done some computer work for his business, and saw a couple where the woman was in a full burqa and he was clearly not comfortable dealing with them. He said that sort of isolation of women gave Islam a bad name.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 4:03:44 PM   
subrob1967


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Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Try reading what I wrote again. The Mullahs are bad guys for sure but most Iranians are very western looking and have always been.



Iran was looking East, not West when they decided to ship IEDs and Support personnel to Afghanistan..

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 4:08:07 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

No link....its all over the web and really, the President Obama Collarme Protection Axis will just dismiss any newsite I post so...

It appears the Saudis are upset over President Obamas "dithering" dealings with Sytia and Iran.

It's an interesting gambit and King Abdullah, conveniently, seems to be missing for comments but it would mark a signiicant shift.


This is so upsetting to me.

The Saudis want us to bitch slap one of their neighbors and are pissed that we won't act as their shill, in an effort that has nothing to do with us.

Waaaaaaaa.

We've provided them with training, ships, airplanes....buck up.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Saudi Arabia To Sever Diplomatic Ties With US - 10/24/2013 4:11:10 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Iran was looking East, not West when they decided to ship IEDs and Support personnel to Afghanistan..


I think you will find AQ got most of its support from Saudi. The same group they are supporting in Syria.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 40
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