RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (Full Version)

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crouchingtigress -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:06:03 AM)

i need to apologize ORI, i see now that nowhere in any of your postings do you say that BDSM is more intellectual than any other sort of relationship, you simply asked about the intellectual componants....my bad....[;)]


quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

I was inspired by a recent conversation to pose this question:

What do you think are the intellectual aspects most appealing in bdsm?

So many possible answers.  Some of mine would include: 

The clarity of each participant's desires promotes excellent communication and intimacy.

A more intimate union, whether sexual or not, allows freer expression and uninhibited imagination. 

Clarity of purpose, intimate communication and the free expression of an uninhibited imagination lead to excellence in other areas.

So, I suppose my premise is good bdsm interaction leads to a higher plane.  What's your own premise?







crouchingtigress -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:09:21 AM)

This part i found facinating Cartakr...care to elaborate?[:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
Realization of the true part played by the surrounding society,adapting to, rather than being assimilated by it.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:12:50 AM)

Loved your post, Susan, esp ...I would add the ability to be vulnerable without feeling like an idiot for being that way (probably this is tied in with clarity).

Being able to give and ask for things your average man-on-the-street might consider weird without feeling ashamed.~purr~


quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Yes, clarity of purpose. Being able to fill someone else's needs - because you know what they are - and to state your needs and upfront and have someone respond to that. What a time-saver that must be. I realize things can still be risky but it sounds like it does save time and possibly un-necessary heartbreak.

I would add the ability to be vulnerable without feeling like an idiot for being that way (probably this is tied in with clarity).

Being able to give and ask for things your average man-on-the-street might consider weird without feeling ashamed.

Being able to forge a deeper emotional relationship with someone because you really get a chance to know them in a very emotionally intimate way; trusting them (and them you) enough to not be afraid to do that.

These opinions are all based on my oh so vast experience of one relationship that was bdsm oriented of one year - so I am no expert.

Good topic.

- Susan






LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:13:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

This part i found facinating Cartakr...care to elaborate?[:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
Realization of the true part played by the surrounding society,adapting to, rather than being assimilated by it.



I think he's essentially saying that we have to reach a balance of being true to ourselves and fulfilled while functioning well within the larger society we interact with. 



Caretakr -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:27:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

This part i found facinating Cartakr...care to elaborate?[:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
Realization of the true part played by the surrounding society,adapting to, rather than being assimilated by it.



I think he's essentially saying that we have to reach a balance of being true to ourselves and fulfilled while functioning well within the larger society we interact with. 


yes.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:28:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
yes.


Woohoo!  Can I get a parfait now? (Damn you Erin!)



crouchingtigress -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:28:41 AM)

Thank you!! you rock LA[:)]
 
 



crouchingtigress -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:31:57 AM)

~Goes to find out what a parfait is then makes it for you~ you have an incredible talent of making things so simple and easy to understand....[;)]


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
yes.


Woohoo!  Can I get a parfait now? (Damn you Erin!)



Caretakr -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:32:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
yes.


Woohoo!  Can I get a parfait now? (Damn you Erin!)


I tend to try to distill things down for clarity.
it's good that some have enough insight to "get it" without my writing a 20 page essay-well done.[;)]



MsIncognito -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:35:40 AM)

I'd have to say that for me it isn't the intellectual aspects that are the most appealing. There are so many different ways I can feed the need for intellectual pursuits - take a class, join a book club, write the great Canadian novel - just to name a few. For me the most appealing thing about BDSM is embracing those visceral emotional components that for the most part lie dormant.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:39:13 AM)

Care & Crouching:  Thanks so much!  Sometimes I miss the mark, but it's good when communication goes where it's supposed to. 



Caretakr -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:41:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Care & Crouching:  Thanks so much!  Sometimes I miss the mark, but it's good when communication goes where it's supposed to. 


In dealing with submissives-or anyone  in the past..I have found that clarity of expression was very important. And the more long winded and flowery one becomes in communication-the more chances for misunderstanding are made available.

Say what you mean, mean what you say-and leave the rest up to the romance writers.[;)]



Driver1961 -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:51:59 AM)

He enters dips His lid,

Does anyone believe that 'Sub-spacing' is an 'intellectual Component of BDSM'?   That Sub-spacing or by any other name, is the higher level of BDSM?   I'd be interested in comments....

Warm regards to all



Caretakr -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:56:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Driver1961

He enters dips His lid,

Does anyone believe that 'Sub-spacing' is an 'intellectual Component of BDSM'?   That Sub-spacing or by any other name, is the higher level of BDSM?   I'd be interested in comments....

Warm regards to all


No,it's the body escaping  from trauma.

But the interesting thing about it is this..... I have also managed to take subs there with no more than bondage and tactile contact-no pain stimuli.

So it naturally occurs to me that it may be mental to a great extent-rather than merely chemical reactions.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 9:57:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Driver1961
Does anyone believe that 'Sub-spacing' is an 'intellectual Component of BDSM'?   That Sub-spacing or by any other name, is the higher level of BDSM?   I'd be interested in comments....

Warm regards to all

While sub-space is an altered state of consciousness, I wouldn't put it down as an intellectual component of bdsm.

And it's certainly no "higher" level.  Lots of subs and bottoms NEVER get to subspace, or get there only rarely, that doesn't mean they haven't reached some "higher level."  Subspace is just a particular experience- not a higher one.

And I think there are many other altered states of consciousness that one can attain without ever engaging in bdsm.  It would be foolish to try and rank them as "more intense" or "more meaningful."

Not to mention, it's not the altered state which is the goal, the altered state might feel good, but it really is just a side-effect of the connection and experience that the person is having.  I think when people focus too much on the altered state as "the goal itself" that they lose the journey and what the altered state is trying to show them about themselves.



Caretakr -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 10:01:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Driver1961
Does anyone believe that 'Sub-spacing' is an 'intellectual Component of BDSM'?   That Sub-spacing or by any other name, is the higher level of BDSM?   I'd be interested in comments....

Warm regards to all

While sub-space is an altered state of consciousness, I wouldn't put it down as an intellectual component of bdsm.

And it's certainly no "higher" level.  Lots of subs and bottoms NEVER get to subspace, or get there only rarely, that doesn't mean they haven't reached some "higher level."  Subspace is just a particular experience- not a higher one.

And I think there are many other altered states of consciousness that one can attain without ever engaging in bdsm.  It would be foolish to try and rank them as "more intense" or "more meaningful."

Not to mention, it's not the altered state which is the goal, the altered state might feel good, but it really is just a side-effect of the connection and experience that the person is having.  I think when people focus too much on the altered state as "the goal itself" that they lose the journey and what the altered state is trying to show them about themselves.


I think that many focus on the physical rather than the mental components. This is where so many subs become frustrated with "players" who are sensual tops. Not to say that this is in any way wrong-only that it does not serve the needs of these people for the mental focus that they desire.

It is the feeling of the outside focus and control that is exciting to them. It narrows the path-and opens up new directions.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 10:10:31 AM)

wow great question Driver...i had to look up intellect in order to answer...and according to Websters intellect is:

  • The ability to learn and reason; the capacity for knowledge and understanding.
  • The ability to think abstractly or profoundly
    then i had to go look up profound because although i have my own definitions for these words, and i was curious if i was off base.
    1. Extending far downward or inward from a surface: abysmal, deep. See surface/depth.
    2. Resulting from or affecting one's innermost feelings: deep, intense, strong. See strong/weak, surface/depth.
    3. Beyond the understanding of an average mind: abstruse, deep, esoteric, recondite. Slang heavy. See easy/hard, surface/depth.

    So the answer is subjective i think, probably varies according to each persons unique brain functionality, but for me, as it pertains to me, subspace is profound, but as that it exists with out reason, or understanding, i dont know how intellectual it is.
     
    Subspace for me is a deep a visceral experience that seems to be accessing a more primal meditative state of awareness.
     
    Now you will notice i did not touch the comment higher state of BDSM that is because i wish to more fully understand what you mean by this.[;)]



    • thetammyjo -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 10:46:35 AM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

    I was inspired by a recent conversation to pose this question:

    What do you think are the intellectual aspects most appealing in bdsm?



    The need to think about yourself in a deeper way.

    The need to think about another in a deeper way.

    The need to develop better communication skills.

    The ability to explore a wide range of interests -- sexual, physical, political, artistic, etc.

    The need to be able to stand up for yourself in the face of opposition from the mundane world around -- explicite or implicite.



    SusanofO -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 1:33:05 PM)

    Thanks! I liked your reply, too. - Susan



    Driver1961 -> RE: Intellectual Components of BDSM (6/29/2006 5:16:28 PM)

    He dips His lid,

    Nice answers Caretaker, L/Alb, and CrouchingTigress  to my subspace questions..   I agree with all your comments.  Is it a higher level of BDSM, is it relevant to classify it as such?

    To CrouchingTigress,  and others, I never said Spacing is a higher level of BDSM- I simply posed the question.   My reasoning is similar to L/a's.  I am aware that some percieve it as the pinnacle of BDSM.  I* prefer to consider it as an exquisite element of BDSM that no-one has personally related any similar experience to me, hence part of my questioning.  (see Kundalini in say Wikipedia)

    My first sub was very susceptible to it, I could touch her forehead, pinch her back, or even unconsiously intonate, and initiate mild to deep spacing. All without the expectation of/or use of pain.  This reaction from my first sub was, like others since, simply a causitive result of our percieved connection or their perceived connection to me in D/s. 

    CrouchTigress defines  'profound' and it is personally subjective just as the majority of comments on all the board are!

    We all like to 'label' or 'classify' but it can actually stop deeper understanding of others, eg yesterday's Is my sub gay? http://www.collarchat.com/m_451442/tm.htm   or even some of the answers on this thread (see my first post here-post 15)

    Yes Caretaker, I do agree that Spacing is certainly not soley connected to pain, and yes in my experience  there is mental (dare I say intellectual?) stimulation prior to the release of the natural opiate.  Even a masochist who spaces purely on the pain without 'knowing' the Dom  is still being mentally stimulated in the lead up to play and play warm up. This masochist would be thinking, utilising higher cognitive abilities.  
    Higher level cognitive abilities are in my opinion simply the 'engine' or 'drive' behind Intellect. (No doubt some confirmation of this view could be found with the various Cognitive theorists- eg Pavlov.)

    Are simpler words the only difference in C/Tigresses and according to Websters intellect is:
  • The ability to learn and reason; the capacity for knowledge and understanding.
  • The ability to think abstractly or profoundly

  • So what is my point?  Simply I believe the Original Poster Oepedis was correct in his wording
    quote:

    I was inspired by a recent conversation to pose this question:

    What do you think are the intellectual aspects most appealing in bdsm?

    So many possible answers.  Some of mine would include: 

    The clarity of each participant's desires promotes excellent communication and intimacy.

    A more intimate union, whether sexual or not, allows freer expression and uninhibited imagination. 

    Clarity of purpose, intimate communication and the free expression of an uninhibited imagination lead to excellence in other areas.

    So, I suppose my premise is good bdsm interaction leads to a higher plane.  What's your own premise?




      So let's move on with our varied perceptions or cognitive thoughts (like the last thetammyjoe post)  of our responses to Oepedis's thread! Hooray I finally was able to 'box'  a quote! I have extended my cyber intellect!

      Warm regards to all from

      Driver1961.   Wildchild's much loved Sir Smuggy.




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