quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
It is clear from reading the article you cited labor rules (negotiated by city managers) were a minor part of the problem. Your editorialized "evils of gov unions" is clearly biased and disengenuous.

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quote:


The last thing Detroit needs is a bailout. What it needs is to sweep away a city charter that protects only bureaucrats, civil-service rules that straightjacket municipal departments, and obsolete union contracts. A bailout would just keep the dysfunction in place. Time to start over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Unfortunately, I am thinking you and we are all correct. I mean to tell you kinkroids if you can see it do it if you are at all interested in the whole story.

I this AM watched a 2 hr documentary on the history of Detroit from the 1805 fire. If there was ever a city that suffered from 'all of the above' it was Detroit. We are talking from WWII and it heyday...every thing that could go wrong...did go wrong and I mean everything.

The feds were instrumental in creating the riots of 67 with their, lenders and agents redlining, to the unions mostly city employees and management, the corruption was almost obvious.

Being born and reared in Detroit, it was a sad story, almost painful to watch. What really is sad, is the horrific long distance fall because that fall was from so high...almost the model city in the 50's. Home ownership, racial harmony for a time and all of the rest you could imagine for a successful city. Yet it fell so far and from such undiluted city corruption and a racist police dept. all of which either started later or I was insulated from living in the northwestern most corner near Southfield.

What a complete disaster and I have no pity. My family got out in 60, the rest within a few years. All of my father's side lived their lives in Detroit. A cousin after military, never returned.

What's left are in the burbs either independent contractors, in their own small business or retired and have to vote down attempts to annex them. I cringe at that and I had dreams of buying back and retrofitting the cottage on a 2.5 acre plot on Commerce Lake that my father and our father-in-law built and and having family reunions there.

I go on like this I think now...for obvious reasons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Yes, a prolonged 'bad economy' in the Midwest can not possibly be the cause of the majority of problems. Detroit has for years been experiencing a dwindling economy. Some of that is due to the population of educated folks in and around the area being low. Another is infrastructure is not as 'up to date' as other cities across the nation. A third is that the city once had some impressive glory days but now needs something new to reinvigorate the city. I also seem to recall that just four years ago, this nation was heading towards an economic depression thanks to the Republic Party's 'handling' of said economy. Unlike the ocean coastline states, the Midwest has been slower to recover in terms of 'disposable cash', 'jobs', and 'wealth generated'. You know, the sort of stuff that underpins most economies in a given area?

quote:

Yes, you ignore all that to attack them on the labor unions. Yes, there the reason for all the problems Detroit has! In light of what I've mention above, doesn't that sound just....a little....absurd? They could be blamed for their fair share of the problems, they however are not the main reason or in the top ten reasons. Using your 'logic' we would have to ban stupid people from elected office because people keep getting killed in Texas over stupid things. That would just about eliminate every Republican from elected office, judging by how well they are doing in the US Congress right now.
If you really hate labor unions with so much passion, why not demand your manager to ignore all the advances to working liberties that the unions have given this nation. Be forced to work 90 hours a week. At half the federal minimal wage. The boss can behave as much as a tyrant has he or she desires towards you. You lose all other benefits beyond your pay. Your not allowed to leave your job except by their permission. You must live, eat, and exist were they say. Oh, and you can only vote as they say. Its funny the number of people that bash the unions can never admit that said unions have done much for this nation.

quote:

Actually, Vince, the evils of the unions in Detroit were clearly a major problem that Detroit faced. I do add that the Union rules and contracts don't seem to be the only major problems Detroit faced.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Unfortunately, I am thinking you and we are all correct. I mean to tell you kinkroids if you can see it do it if you are at all interested in the whole story.

I this AM watched a 2 hr documentary on the history of Detroit from the 1805 fire. If there was ever a city that suffered from 'all of the above' it was Detroit. We are talking from WWII and it heyday...every thing that could go wrong...did go wrong and I mean everything.

The feds were instrumental in creating the riots of 67 with their, lenders and agents redlining, to the unions mostly city employees and management, the corruption was almost obvious.

Being born and reared in Detroit, it was a sad story, almost painful to watch. What really is sad, is the horrific long distance fall because that fall was from so high...almost the model city in the 50's. Home ownership, racial harmony for a time and all of the rest you could imagine for a successful city. Yet it fell so far and from such undiluted city corruption and a racist police dept. all of which either started later or I was insulated from living in the northwestern most corner near Southfield.

What a complete disaster and I have no pity. My family got out in 60, the rest within a few years. All of my father's side lived their lives in Detroit. A cousin after military, never returned.

What's left are in the burbs either independent contractors, in their own small business or retired and have to vote down attempts to annex them. I cringe at that and I had dreams of buying back and retrofitting the cottage on a 2.5 acre plot on Commerce Lake that my father and our father-in-law built and and having family reunions there.

I go on like this I think now...for obvious reasons.

I wasn't going to even mention the '67 riots because I was barely 2 years old at the time and I have no interest in getting into a racial debate. Nevertheless, the effects of that period have been long-term and have also played a role in how Detroit wound up where it is today.

You're absolutely right...it's a complete disaster and I have no pity either. And yet, I still love Detroit and at least now I feel like I can be optimistic about it's future.

BTW...GO TIGERS!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
The city is also stuck in some syndrome of nostalgia with not only the sprawling Packard plant still there but also Henry Ford's River Rouge plant. I guess nobody even wanted the land.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

We refused to let Detroit go bankrupt. We bet on American workers and American ingenuity, and three years later, that bet is paying off in a big way. ~Barack Obama
K.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

We refused to let Detroit go bankrupt. We bet on American workers and American ingenuity, and three years later, that bet is paying off in a big way. ~Barack Obama

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

We refused to let Detroit go bankrupt. We bet on American workers and American ingenuity, and three years later, that bet is paying off in a big way. ~Barack Obama
K.

To be fair, I think President Obama was using "Detroit" in terms of it being the hub of the auto industry, rather than in terms of the actual City of Detroit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

We refused to let Detroit go bankrupt. We bet on American workers and American ingenuity, and three years later, that bet is paying off in a big way. ~Barack Obama
K.

To be fair, I think President Obama was using "Detroit" in terms of it being the hub of the auto industry, rather than in terms of the actual City of Detroit.

Why be "fair" when you can take a cheap shot at a President you despise ?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
It is clear from reading the article you cited labor rules (negotiated by city managers) were a minor part of the problem. Your editorialized "evils of gov unions" is clearly biased and disengenuous.

Actually, Vince, the evils of the unions in Detroit were clearly a major problem that Detroit faced. I do add that the Union rules and contracts don't seem to be the only major problems Detroit faced. Now, Detroit is sagging under the weight of the Union contracts and associated benefits that are tag-teaming with corruption (maybe not present, but definitely past corruption). A City Charter that seems to have too many bureaucrats and Union rules can do in any city once corruption comes into play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

And the evils of gov unions:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323829104578623422748612116.html