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Mercnbeth -> Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 11:42:11 AM)

Fat people, thin people, blacks, whites, gingers, old people, young people, males, females, hermaphrodites, transgender, transsexuals, dominants,  submissives, bi-sexual, switches and any combination of above; I think we’ve seen threads asking why any of these groups are more or less prevalent on this site and in the BDSM “lifestyle”. There have even been treads about the word “lifestyle”. Limits, conceptual “no-limits”, defining and distinguishing slave from submissive; all generate heated debate regardless of the time since the last thread “resolved” the issue. Assumptions and generalities are represented even when the data pool surveyed is one. Sometimes, when questioned, the data pool is actually zero. The “experience” is not always reality based. Often opinions and “facts” are based upon playing a protracted on-line “adult” RPG.

I’ve wondered why there is ever a question regarding the predominance or lack of any of the above distinguished groups from the pool of potential partners? The problem I have with the question isn’t one of preference or having to be witness a debate that is basically prejudicial in nature. My problem is I saw it as counter productive to the stated goal of many here on CM – to find a compatible partner. Granted, many profiles have very stringent criteria for that partner. Some, like ours, may leave you wondering why the hell we are here. But seeking someone, on some level, for some purpose; is a common theme.

What’s the problem? Is seems that our social and partner seeking goals have evolved in the same manner as our business goals. Business used to focus on the long term. Business didn’t focus on one month’s, or one quarter’s results. There were 3 year plans, five year plans and a corporate “Mission Statement” that defined goals for the lifetime of the company. Now, we focus on today’s results, and bonuses are paid based upon timeframes as short as week. Consequently, there is no warehousing, no inventory, and no plan that extends beyond the next evaluation period. When interest in your product starts to wane, have a “sale”. Whether that is good or bad for business is not the point. However, having that mindset when seeking a partner predicates that your result, like the short term business plan, will lead you wondering what to do once the “sale” is over.

In the case of those ‘buying’, or seeking a partner, many seem to be looking for that discounted sale item. The sense of desperation in some of the threads posted regarding their physical isolation, or particular ‘unique’ kink project a false belief that if they don’t take the first opportunity to come there way, or ‘settle for something; the store will close and they’ll go home empty handed. Routinely short term settling results in long term disappointment. “Buyers Remorse” is a common theme. What about the ‘sellers’?

Our media generated image is dysfunctional, sexually immature, perverted, neurotics, with an overactive sex drive. That is very attractive bait. Where there is bait there are fish that eat it. CM is a great big pool of bait. Who’s here? HNG whose image of a naked woman is based upon putting dollars in her g-string at a bar, one handed web-surfers who’ve learned to be quiet as they achieve orgasm as to not wake their sleeping spouses, and ‘forployers’ prepared to assume any role for the possibility of a physical encounter. The majorities, based upon the complaining “observation” posts, seem to be made up of people looking for a quick lay with little or no idea regarding the dynamics of a BDSM based relationship. A relationship isn’t their goal. Why else would physical appearance be given so high a priority?

And finally after this long winded diatribe I get to the point. Physical appearance should be at nearer the top of the criteria pyramid not part of the foundation. Sure it should be considered in the equation but if you represent you seek a long term relationship, at some point that appearance will change. It’s similar to placing too high criteria on physical and sexual compatibility. Desires change, required intensity evolves. More importantly at some point in a relationship you have to be around each other with you clothes on. Why then, seeking a long term relationship, should appearance be the primary, or disqualifying consideration? Better yet, if you are on the ‘wrong side’ of the issue, be grateful people are exposing themselves as being shallow from the get go before emotions come into play.



SusanofO -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 11:45:35 AM)

Maybe some people get frustrated because they are looking for X and keep getting contacted (or contacting) what turns out to be Y. But geez, Collarme has tens of thousands of members, plus, there are other sites like this around (of course we shan't mention their names, and none of them are as good as CM). So I don't see what the problem is (except maybe frustration)?

I have met several nice people here, but have also been contacted by people whose opening sentence is: "Do you have pics?" (Of course I have pics - what do you take me for, a moron? I guess people have a right to look for what they want but ...don't you have anything else to ask me first)? I do realize men are visual creatures, etc. but it tends to strike me as a wee bit crass (but, it's their life). 
And we've all been there I suppose...

Personally, (and I realize this thread isn't about me, but anyway) - I will attempt to decrease that pool by saying, even though I love to chat, I truly am not looking for a partner right now (but plan to in 2-3 months). I state this in my profile, but some people do think saying :"Seeking friends only" is a self-protective device (and as far as self-protective devices go, I think that one's not half bad). I do think friendships can grow, but am not starting any with that end in mind right now. If it happens, great, if not, I and everyone else has the rest of their natural life to do partner seeking (which I am sure can be frustrating at times).Not that anyone is waiting with baited breath anyway. I truly think in many ways I could be emotionally dangerous for someone else right now, which is why I am taking it very slow. So- whoever - consider yourself warned.

-Susan



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 11:51:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
And finally after this long winded diatribe I get to the point. Physical appearance should be at nearer the top of the criteria pyramid not part of the foundation. Sure it should be considered in the equation but if you represent you seek a long term relationship, at some point that appearance will change. It’s similar to placing too high criteria on physical and sexual compatibility. Desires change, required intensity evolves. More importantly at some point in a relationship you have to be around each other with you clothes on. Why then, seeking a long term relationship, should appearance be the primary, or disqualifying consideration? Better yet, if you are on the ‘wrong side’ of the issue, be grateful people are exposing themselves as being shallow from the get go before emotions come into play.


I think basing one's main criteria on a partner on something that is short-term is indeed short sighted.  Physical beauty and particular looks is definitely something that tends to be short term on a person ans thus if you're basing the relationship mainly on that- then you should understand the relationship will likely not last long term either.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing- having a hot fling with a hot person can be a lot of fun.  I've done it.

However, if what you are after is the long term, then obviously having your main criteria on long term parts of someone needs to be the main foundations of the relationship. 

But I wouldn't suggest that someone's criteria is off.  We all have irrational parts of what we seek that become part of what we need- some people refuse to date anyone but Jews because they need a Jewish partner.  Some people refuse to date anyone under or over a certain age.  Some people refuse to date anyone who smokes.  These things have nothing to do with a person's personality or relationship abilities, but they may simply be something that is a "deal breaker" for another.

I agree that asking about groups of people and their make up or lack thereof is generally only useful for intellectual observation and ponderings.  But we are allowed to be as rational or irrational about our requirements in a long term partner as we want.  As long as we accept the consequences of our requirements and not whine about it, I don't think it's a problem.



Caretakr -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 11:54:07 AM)

I base my search criteria entirely on a business model.

I'm seeking an eventual M/s dynamic, and I have a specific job description that needs to be filled. And the supplicant must meet those qualifications. So that sets the initial filter-beyond that, I would like pleasant companionship to add some warmth to the arrangement.

I understand that others have different criteria, and I can respect that. What I can't respect is knee jerk reactions and squealing over differences-because people are too wrapped up in thier private obsessions to see any other relationship model as having validity.



litleone8620 -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:06:40 PM)

Everything you've said is more or less true. Whether or not people believe it is a different story.

People tend to be set in their ways of what they want in a partner, and so refuse to change their preferences.

They have incredibly specific criteria for a partner, and then complain when they don't find someone. Yet they refuse to reform their list of attributes they desire. They can only blame themselves for their unhappiness.

Putting any type of attribute that changes over time as the foundation of a relationship is just plain stupid. What happens when you make a commitment to someone who you find physically attractive at the beginning, then later decide they're not what you wanted.

Not only do other people's attributes change, but a person's own preferences change over time.



meatcleaver -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:06:41 PM)

Right from the beginning I've thought that most profiles are counter productive in that they are more likely to put off people than attract them because of their demands. The best way to meet someone for a lasting relationship is not to worry about so many criteria but to talk to people at length and in depth. People change depending on who they are talking to so a dominant to one person might be a sub to another. Sexual and physical compatibility are not great criteria for making initial contact with someone, since probably most people don't really know what they want until they find it. I've said it before, if you advertise yourself like a secondhand car or you scan profiles as you would scan advertisements for a secondhand car, you'll probably end up with a secondhand car.

When I started with BDSM and kink I had no idea about it or that I cared for it until I met someone who brought the delicious nastiness out in me. In fact if we were trying to find someone by looking through profiles full of requirements, we would have probably ignored each other because we would have ticked very few boxes of each other.



zenofeller -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:06:53 PM)

I, for one, am gratefull Merc.



Caretakr -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:10:11 PM)

It's interesting that I am seeing the all inclusive attitude here now-when we come here seeking specifics-why might that be?

Is everyone a potential match for everyone? Just by lowering your standards?



MHOO314 -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:10:20 PM)

Ages ago, I had a submissive tell Me something I never forgot---the body is a container--fall in love with the mind, the soul and the voice. Over time the container will fade, chip, get cracked and go out of style but the soul remains constant. I have never forgotten that.



meatcleaver -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:15:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Is everyone a potential match for everyone? Just by lowering your standards?


No. You are just increasing the possibilities by keeping an open mind, instead of writing Santa Claus a want list.



darkinshadows -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:18:06 PM)

I think that there is a huge amount of people that tend to look at the now and try to ignore the whats to come.
People do change.  You may want that perfect size 10(that would be an 8 for the US) with perfect teeth and a wonderful scent, and there is nothing wrong with wanting specific requirements.
 
But in this age of 'give it to me now' - where everything is provided on a 'perfection' basis - people now expect to be able to have it all when they want it.  And these days (god I sound old) everything is so throwaway and conveniant.  When you don't want it - you just toss it and get the better and newer version - and if you don't - then there must be something 'wrong ' with you.  Theres no working on fixing the problem if one occurs - you just buy the newer version.
 
Relationships are being turned into that.  Quick, conveniant, and available 24/7.
 
Having preferences isn't wrong.  Limiting ones choices for the sake of specific likes and desires isn't wrong.  But not being prepared to work on change the lazy attitudes that people are being raised up on is causing heartbreak and smashed expectations.
 
And the constant moaning about what's so wrong all the time in others perceptions instead of what can be right and the passing off of responsibility that sucks.  No one wants to take responsibility for themselves because they have to take a look at their own faults.
And people like to see themselves as faultless - but want the rest of the world to be what sucks.
 
Peace and Rapture
 



SusanofO -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:24:48 PM)

Ha! My sister keeps telling my 16 year old nephew (he has started "dating"):
"Look for someone with a brain. Your love can always have plastic surgery. Beauty is fleeting - dumb is forever". Of course with his hormones in overdrive at this stage, he will probably ignore that advice (my guess). But I think it's good advice anyway.

- Susan



lisa1978 -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:28:52 PM)

What a wonderful post Mercnbeth.

Most people resent be labeled, grouped or thought as not unique and special people. This happens greatly in this life. We want to think of ourselves as special. Then although it happens to all of us, some more then others and in some things or a lot of things, we from our opinions and reactions to public/peer pressure standards.

So a person looking for someone thin, big breasted, successful, etc. and etc. are to be attacked as shallow and small minded but at the same time the person calling them shallow has their own criteria that would cause them to be labeled as shallow as well. It is double standard 101. I should be accepted for whom I am but I am going to be picky for who I choose. In reality nothing really wrong in the big picture but the semantics of it are not pretty and productive.

The problem I see often on sites like these and in general dating patterns is that all of us struggle to understand our own needs in a partner, what we would like in a partner and what society is telling us we want and need in a partner. We often get them confused and that is when people make wrong decisions and bad relationships get entered into. We let our last bad experience take precedent on what we are looking for next.

I do not think when it comes to relationships that we are more short sighted then years gone by. Statistics tell us that we are marrying at an older age. I just think that on these sites and because of the needs we have that do not get fulfilled by being with regular people that there is such a concentration of wanting to have this in our life that we rush when we would never rush and concentrate way too much on the aspects of this life and not the actual human connection and compatibility. Lifestyle frenzy tends to cloud judgment.

So do physical looks and sexual components weigh too much in peoples search I would have to agree. I do think that all aspects in a relationship have an importance. Knowing which are important to you, rather if they are shallow to other people, and looking for people who also have similar important aspects is a big key that we often fail at. These important aspects can be sexual, intellectual, and anything.

Am I shallow if I need an owner who is going to be very sexually active and have passion for their career? Then I am shallow. The trick is not what names we attached to the game of relationships but understanding the difference between wants and needs. The person who can separate the two has a much better chance at finding their special one(s).



Caretakr -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:30:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Is everyone a potential match for everyone? Just by lowering your standards?


No. You are just increasing the possibilities by keeping an open mind, instead of writing Santa Claus a want list.

I don't see maintaining standards as being mutually exclusive of having an open mind. If you lower them to the point that you rule out your own happiness,what is the point?

I am not about to be with someone for instance,-who is wonderful inside- but makes me cringe every time I look at them. That's not tolerance-it's masochism.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:39:00 PM)

 
 
I also have a problem with the "why aren't there any more X threads myself but more because it is a value judgment that makes no sense.....lets say its TVs well even if there were 30 -3000 more of them does it really shift the probability that you would find yours? in theory yes, but not to me, to we are in a relationship of not because we are or are not ready to be in one....and the very second we are ready it is in front of us in a way we could not have dreamed possible.
 
Any number of folks can attest to this experiance.....when you look for lack you find lack...when you look for complain you dont have something you are just reaffirming that you dont and not really shifting the energy to getting what you want.
 
We as humans reinforce this idea of scarcity every day "there is not enough" "I dont get mine" all the good ones are taken"...and really it does not serve the person because we create our experiences by the thoughts we think.


Ok so this is a little parable: once there was a king, and he called to his thrown the happiest man in all his kingdom and the most dour...to the dour man he said Search my kingdom and find for me one good man pure of heart and return to me in a year....and to the happy man he said search for a man who is wicked and evil and bring him to me in a years time...

Well at the end of the year the king asked the dour man "well what have you found?" and the dour man said i have searched every house hold sire and i was unable to find a good hearted man in all of your land

The king turned to the happy man and asked the same thing...and he said "i have search each house hold sire, and i was absolutely unable to find and evil man"



Caretakr -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:50:53 PM)

Yes,but how many houses would each have needed to look in to find a shoemaker?

On those criteria, they would have come out even- with the same attitudes.



slavejali -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:51:25 PM)

 I guess the things that come to mind from this op are:

1. Beauty fades

2. We all get wrinkles.

3. I guess when all is said and done, realising we have to actually wake up in the morning to the person we are having the relationship with, day after day after day after day after day, would be a good thing.

4. A persons personality is what we have to live with. That personality is going to effect our lives intimately. It is going to effect how our home feels, the kinds of things we do, the way we live.

5. Something that isnt mentioned much in topics like these are, beauty does not necessarily discount one from being a wonderfully warm together individual. A lot of the time, people who perceive themselves to be other than that, have issues of lack within themselves, having to prove themselves worthy all the time, having to feel better about themselves by putting others that they percieve to be more beautiful than them down, validating themselves by viscously defending their right to be themselves (themselves being an individual they percieve to be lacking in some area). Living with someone with a consciousness of lack, however they cover it up, can be a very hard thing to live with on a day to day basis. You never get to the real person, you ar either dealing with a defense mechanism, a sorrowful part of them, or some illusion they have built up around themselves. I guess why I'm mentioning this is, I always wonder when someone has to put it out there that they are more than a body, that they have a terrific personality despite their looks, whenever there is a defense, there is a problem in the psychic make-up...and I guess I've gone a little off topic......I do see your point...but was worth mentioning to balance things up.

6. I've never been attracted to physical looks, I cant once remember walking down the street and thinking "Wow, he's hot I'd love to have a relationship with him"...I cant even conceive of the idea, its ludicrous to me. I do however accept, men in general are visual creatures, much more so than women...I feel sorry for them in a way..Ive seen some men get together with women who were real bitches, total emotional basket-cases, manipulative and deceiful...just cause they were attracted to how they looked...poor guys...but then...when it all comes down to it...they do get punished for it..they have to suffer the consequences of their choices.

7. I've got a general belief that people put more thought into their business decisions than they do in choosing a partner.



agirl -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:52:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Right from the beginning I've thought that most profiles are counter productive in that they are more likely to put off people than attract them because of their demands. The best way to meet someone for a lasting relationship is not to worry about so many criteria but to talk to people at length and in depth. People change depending on who they are talking to so a dominant to one person might be a sub to another. Sexual and physical compatibility are not great criteria for making initial contact with someone, since probably most people don't really know what they want until they find it. I've said it before, if you advertise yourself like a secondhand car or you scan profiles as you would scan advertisements for a secondhand car, you'll probably end up with a secondhand car.

When I started with BDSM and kink I had no idea about it or that I cared for it until I met someone who brought the delicious nastiness out in me. In fact if we were trying to find someone by looking through profiles full of requirements, we would have probably ignored each other because we would have ticked very few boxes of each other.


 Hello meatcleaver,

If I'd seen a profile that spelt out my Master's preferences and nature, I'd have run a mile ( or even further).

The majority of profiles that I've read helped me decide that I'd never again write one.

The last one I had stated that * Nothing I could write here would satisfy me as a description of myself*...and that still is true.

It's all very well saying that, as I'm not *seeking* and unlikely to....but I DO wonder what I'd be tempted to write if I WAS.

I'm not certain that .....* I am not submissive. If you can juggle plates or buckets of eels, minus the bucket, then please feel free to mail* would cut it, somehow ..LOL

agirl



















Caretakr -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:56:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali



7. I've got a general belief that people put more thought into their business decisions than they do in choosing a partner.


Unless you making choosing your partner more like a business decision.[;)]



crouchingtigress -> RE: Buyers & Sellers (6/28/2006 12:59:30 PM)

huh???

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Yes,but how many houses would each have needed to look in to find a shoemaker?

On those criteria, they would have come out even- with the same attitudes.



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