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I have waited to post this, figuring someone else would... - 7/21/2013 1:11:43 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I have admitted to being catholic, not a very devote catholic, havent been to mass since 2003, havent been to confession in just as long.

My reasons is my belief that the church has not kept to the teachings of St. Peter, or held to the spiritual traditions the church was based on.

And this seems to prove my point.

quote:

Vatican offers 'time off purgatory' to followers of Pope Francis tweets

In its latest attempt to keep up with the times the Vatican has married one of its oldest traditions to the world of social media by offering "indulgences" to followers of Pope Francis' tweets.

The church's granted indulgences reduce the time Catholics believe they will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been absolved of their sins.

The remissions got a bad name in the Middle Ages because unscrupulous churchmen sold them for large sums of money. But now indulgences are being applied to the 21st century.

But a senior Vatican official warned web-surfing Catholics that indulgences still required a dose of old-fashioned faith, and that paradise was not just a few mouse clicks away.

"You can't obtain indulgences like getting a coffee from a vending machine," Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli, head of the pontifical council for social communication, told the Italian daily Corriere della Sera.

Source



Sorry but this is going a bit far, in my opinion.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/21/2013 2:44:39 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline 		It's been almost 500 years since Martin Luther and his 95 Theses, motivated by this exact frivolous attitude and buying people's support with promises of salvation (or reduction of Purgatory time, as in this example). I guess some people just don't learn... I think the backlash and mockery of this particular decision will greatly outweigh what little benefit they'll get from it.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/21/2013 3:00:33 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		yep ya beat me to da punch



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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/21/2013 3:24:04 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have admitted to being catholic, not a very devote catholic, havent been to mass since 2003, havent been to confession in just as long.

My reasons is my belief that the church has not kept to the teachings of St. Peter, or held to the spiritual traditions the church was based on.

And this seems to prove my point.

quote:

Vatican offers 'time off purgatory' to followers of Pope Francis tweets

In its latest attempt to keep up with the times the Vatican has married one of its oldest traditions to the world of social media by offering "indulgences" to followers of Pope Francis' tweets.

The church's granted indulgences reduce the time Catholics believe they will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been absolved of their sins.

The remissions got a bad name in the Middle Ages because unscrupulous churchmen sold them for large sums of money. But now indulgences are being applied to the 21st century.

But a senior Vatican official warned web-surfing Catholics that indulgences still required a dose of old-fashioned faith, and that paradise was not just a few mouse clicks away.

"You can't obtain indulgences like getting a coffee from a vending machine," Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli, head of the pontifical council for social communication, told the Italian daily Corriere della Sera.

Source



Sorry but this is going a bit far, in my opinion.



I don't believe you've fairly and accurately presented it.

http://mashable.com/2013/07/16/pope-forgive-sins-twitter/
For social followers who have previously confessed their sins, have been absolved by a priest and have attended mass.....

I, personally, think that plenary indulgences are a bit much, as opposed to a regular kind of indulgence. But I actually think the idea is a good one. Many people are not going to church regularly; this effort to get them to hear the word of god, requires them to go to church, go to confession - and then they may receive a plenary indulgence.

All in all this is a win-win. It gets anyone that decides to involved in the church, and it gets the church into the 21 century, using modern technology.

Remember what Luther was so pissed about was the sale of indulgences. Quite a different animal.


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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/21/2013 6:26:23 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have admitted to being catholic, not a very devote catholic, havent been to mass since 2003, havent been to confession in just as long.

My reasons is my belief that the church has not kept to the teachings of St. Peter, or held to the spiritual traditions the church was based on.

And this seems to prove my point.

quote:

Vatican offers 'time off purgatory' to followers of Pope Francis tweets

In its latest attempt to keep up with the times the Vatican has married one of its oldest traditions to the world of social media by offering "indulgences" to followers of Pope Francis' tweets.

The church's granted indulgences reduce the time Catholics believe they will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been absolved of their sins.

The remissions got a bad name in the Middle Ages because unscrupulous churchmen sold them for large sums of money. But now indulgences are being applied to the 21st century.

But a senior Vatican official warned web-surfing Catholics that indulgences still required a dose of old-fashioned faith, and that paradise was not just a few mouse clicks away.

"You can't obtain indulgences like getting a coffee from a vending machine," Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli, head of the pontifical council for social communication, told the Italian daily Corriere della Sera.

Source



Sorry but this is going a bit far, in my opinion.

I don't believe any man (or woman) has jurisdiction over the afterlife.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/21/2013 7:01:42 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have admitted to being catholic, not a very devote catholic, havent been to mass since 2003, havent been to confession in just as long.

My reasons is my belief that the church has not kept to the teachings of St. Peter, or held to the spiritual traditions the church was based on.

And this seems to prove my point.

quote:

Vatican offers 'time off purgatory' to followers of Pope Francis tweets

In its latest attempt to keep up with the times the Vatican has married one of its oldest traditions to the world of social media by offering "indulgences" to followers of Pope Francis' tweets.

The church's granted indulgences reduce the time Catholics believe they will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been absolved of their sins.

The remissions got a bad name in the Middle Ages because unscrupulous churchmen sold them for large sums of money. But now indulgences are being applied to the 21st century.

But a senior Vatican official warned web-surfing Catholics that indulgences still required a dose of old-fashioned faith, and that paradise was not just a few mouse clicks away.

"You can't obtain indulgences like getting a coffee from a vending machine," Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli, head of the pontifical council for social communication, told the Italian daily Corriere della Sera.

Source



Sorry but this is going a bit far, in my opinion.

I don't believe any man (or woman) has jurisdiction over the afterlife.



If someone is in Purgatory, they will end up in Heaven at some point. If they have unconfessed mortal sin on their soul, all the indulgences in the world won't help them. That is the doctrine. Indulgences are little acts of faith that one performs (one can earn an "indulgence" for merely reading the Bible for 30 minutes if done with faith and a soul in the state of grace). Without the faith behind them, they are meaningless and don't do anything for your soul.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/21/2013 9:52:52 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Why not simply buy your indulgences from the official Chinese Catholic Church?

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 12:04:57 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I'm not a religious person so I really don't care so much, it's just that this news was quite funny, but on the other hand times change so I don't see wat's the problem with a "virtual peregrinage" concept, I mean if you can follow mass through television or radio why not via tweeter, we don't know what St.Peter would have thought about.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 12:52:43 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		When the church starts handing out Indifferences, then I'll get in line.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 1:18:55 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		But if you were going to hell wouldn't you want to be "buying" time in pergatory?

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 2:36:37 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

But if you were going to hell wouldn't you want to be "buying" time in pergatory?


in the end if you are for catholic doctrine it's very difficoult to end up in hell, as you can always repent on the moment of death, so if you don't deny gesus christ it's a matther of pergatory, I thought better about this, I think this is actually the most basic tradiction of the original church, if apostles moved to rome from palestine is because of it's fast communication lines could spread the word faster and in today's world the cloud represent the same tool, last part of a today's new testament version would be like:

Simon "the rock" Peter @elect_resident_aliens #Blessed be the #God and #Father of our Lord Jesus #Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively #hope, by the #resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

edit: it's the "at" symbol that was censored

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 7/22/2013 2:39:25 AM >

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 2:48:09 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		FR

That sounds like something out of the Onion.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 8:07:29 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		I don't normally get involved in religious discussions except to convey the foolishness. Man created all of it so man can interpret or modify [it] as necessary.

To me, it is just intellectually lazy to try to tell me just what your God said and what your God means because after all...he's your God.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 11:48:32 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

When the church starts handing out Indifferences, then I'll get in line.



This is worthy of Sunny's Quote of the Day!!

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 1:50:58 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I have had a problem with "indulgences" ever since I read the history of the crusades.

And to be honest, who is the judge of penance is done with faith and a soul in the state of grace. I mean I doubt if the knights and men at arms that went on the crusades massacred the citizens of Jerusalem, Muslim, Jew and Christian in faith and a state of grace. Not to mention all of the indulgences sold down through history.

This news came along with a story about a defrocked priest who was accused of molesting children in his parish, stood trial, and was acquitted. The church reviewed the "secular" proceedings and found that two of the charges he was acquitted of had "merit." Thus he was defrocked and excommunicated. The church used his acquittals as a defense in the civil proceedings which also were dismissed.

Going off topic for a minute, of the total number of priests accused of sexual misconduct (molestation) of children numbers less than 2% of the total number of priests in the church.

in the us.a. last year 5 have been accused [accused] compare that to the 480 public school employees who were charged , these included teachers, coaches , principals, and other employees in 2009 world wide since the it all broke, the percentage of priests is less than 2%, these numbers are factual. Given that there are over 40,000 priests in the US and 400,000 in the world. Less than 1/2 of 1% have ever been charged with a crime, which is comparable to or less than clergy in other churches, much less than among teachers and coaches, and not even in the same league as abuse within families.

Back to the indulgences, even as a Catholic I was raised to believe that Jesus Christ was the final judge on mankind, so my 'confessions' were basically an act of what was expected from a good Catholic and less an act of faith. Yes, telling someone that is legally and ethically bound to keep secrets helped in some cases, but for the most part, what sins I committed were between me and my god.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 2:03:01 PM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR

That sounds like something out of the Onion.


Nope. This one is %100 legitimate. I've heard it from multiple sources just locally.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 3:00:54 PM   
tommonymous


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

in the us.a. last year 5 have been accused [accused] compare that to the 480 public school employees who were charged , these included teachers, coaches , principals, and other employees in 2009 world wide since the it all broke, the percentage of priests is less than 2%, these numbers are factual. Given that there are over 40,000 priests in the US and 400,000 in the world. Less than 1/2 of 1% have ever been charged with a crime, which is comparable to or less than clergy in other churches, much less than among teachers and coaches, and not even in the same league as abuse within families.



Jeff, can you clarify your numbers a bit? If there are 400,000 Catholic priests in the world, and ~2% have been accused of sexual molestation, that equates to 8,000 accused Catholic priests. That's well over the 480 American public school employees (I imagine that includes everything from janitors to superintendents.) accused in 2009. *This compares global numbers to numbers for the US only, which is a bit dishonest.*

If you take the 5 Catholic priests accused out of 40,000 total, that gives a number of .0125% of Catholic priests being accused. According to NCES Column 10, there were 3,219,458 public school teachers in the US in Fall 2008. Let's assume that there were the same number (480) public school employees accused in 2008, since that's the most recent year that I could find numbers for. That would make that rate .0149% but keep in mind that this number doesn't include the other employees (janitors, coaches, admin types) that are included in the number of accused which you provided, so the rate would fall when those are added to the total number of employees.

Edit: A pretty major revision to include additional research. Thank you Google. Also, html is picky, and I needed another crack for the sake of clarity. Whew!


< Message edited by tommonymous -- 7/22/2013 3:18:57 PM >

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 4:17:09 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Less than 1/2 of 1% have ever been charged with a crime, which is comparable to or less than clergy in other churches, much less than among teachers and coaches, and not even in the same league as abuse within families.

People are so mad about pedophile priests not because they realize that those priests are just as human as the rest of us. It's because the church has been covering up those heinous crimes for decades, if not centuries. It's been tracked all the way to the previous Pope. (He of the Hitler Youth.)

These aren't the Dark Ages - the world is not a theocracy but a democracy (supposedly) ruled by law and order. If your priest gets his jollies by raping little ones, turn him in. Anything less than that is a crime, and covering it up with the Bible and statistical arguments only makes it worse.

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RE: I have waited to post this, figuring someone else w... - 7/22/2013 4:17:36 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

When the church starts handing out Indifferences, then I'll get in line.


I'm with this one. Although I've been thinking of becoming a Mormon so I can not only indulge in my magic underwear fetish, but I can also get "Get Our Of Hell Free" cards for all my ancestors.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
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