RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings

RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (Full Version)

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Kree -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 12:02:11 PM)
LA I agree with the idea of setting a time frame for a meeting. As some have posted, too long of a time spent in cyber land or on the telephone creates a "relationship" that the real world might not be able to sustain. Then, when the meeting does happen, someone walks away hurt or disappointed because expectations did not match flesh. There are enough three day weekend holidays during the year that anyine who is serious can make the time to meet in person. Something that hasnt been mentioned in this thread is there are indeed people out there that will juggle 5 potential partners until something clicks and then four of them are left sitting at the keyboard. The funniest example I have seen of this was when someone actually faked his death to remove himself from the nightmare he created. Of course, being an idiot, when the person he finally picked didnt suit him, he created a new screen name and rose from the dead. People instantly recognized his typos, his demeanor, and his writing style and ran him away from that particular forum. I have had two relationships over the years that began with distance problems. In both situations, we met within a month in real life. After that, we spent at least every other weekend together until decisions were made about the future. In one situation, she did most of the traveling because I am a single parent with no close relatives nearby. In the second situation, my son had reached an age where I felt he could take care of himself and I did most of the traveling. I am also fortuante because I can arrange my work schedule to suit me. That did not make the 7 1/2 - 8 hour one way trip any easler, but the time spent between going to and returning from was priceless. After about a year, of those times spent together, we both knew what we wanted and she moved here. The difference between success and failure in moving from distance to real life is simply spending the time together in person to know each other. One or two meetings can not define a relationship or create a solid foundation for a future together. Anyone can go a weekend or two without bad breath, stinky feet, or being annoying in general... but when you live 24/7 there is really nowhere to hide. Spend the time together. Leave desperation to belong or desperation to own out of the equation. Unless you are terminally ill and have an angel to catch, time spent learning each other is time spent building a future.

rose442 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 1:00:35 PM)
Wwe would have met before 6 months if it was possible. If It had been possible I would have never left when I went there then. But I had a family back home. And The money was not there to travel more. I had a full time job. Master knew I could not afford (or Him afford) me to travel there more often. The 1 face to face meeting is all Wwe had before I made the final flight there to help Master drive here for good. IF people are honest when they talk then it is possible that a relationship can go from online to off line. If there is shadded areas or little white lies, Or bold lies in there for that time. It will eventually come out in off line time. And then there might not be a relationship. But it all depends on the couple on how the outcome will be. rose442

slavejali -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 2:01:19 PM)
Master and I moved from an online relationship to RT successfully. In my experince these were the key factors. 1. We didnt "roleplay" online. I think that was an important factor because in a lot of roleplay I have witnessed online, its easy to see people are interacting on a fantasy level, which is all good fun, but not much help when it comes down to the nitty gritties of a day to day relationship. 2. We both had previous RT experience in Master/slave relationship. I think this was an important factor as we both knew from experience what it was to live in a D/s relationship on a day to day basis. We could be honest about our expectations pulling on facts based on reality. 3. We both had a lot of life experience, I guess due to our ages..but not only that..we both had really been exposed to a lot of life experiences. Things like we had both lived in other countries, so the realities around living in another culture and being away from what is familiar were known to us. We had both walked a similar path in life, the scenery different but the underlaying theme was the same which lead us to know ourselves and understand people more....we were past giving meaning to the superficial things in life and comfortable with whats really important. 4. We both could prove to the other we were really who we said we were. 5. We both had successful past long term relationships. 6. When Master came here, he basically threw the Master/slave relationship out the window. He said to me, "I want a partner not just a slave..you are going to have to have patience and trust me, we have all the time in the world." He went through a process that got rid of all my pre-conceived ideas about being a slave and made me "his" slave. There were times I wondered whether he was a genius or just lazy or not dominant or not kinky..but I held on to what he has said...and trusted him..trusted the process....and somewhere amidst it all..I found I was "Mastered" and he got himself a slave....but most of all we have a "relationship". I realised my perception of lazy came from my impatience, my perception of not dominant came from my trying to control...stuff like that...its been a wonderful process. I could talk about this for hours. Anyways the point of this point is, Master and I were fully aware that there was going to be a transition from online to RT, we had no illusions about that and we were prepared to go through the process. Anyways enough rambling from me..blah blah blah oh p.s. 7. We had a time-frame set for meeting too (that's an important factor as has been mentioned),

heartfeltsub -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 2:05:09 PM)
Thank you all so much for your wonderful answers and for relating your personal experiences.

Caretakr -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 2:12:29 PM)
I think it best to explore someone in a friendship mode first. This allows one to see if there are compatabilites and differences that can hopefully lead to a sharing arrangement that has a good content of creativity and enjoyment for both parties-while also being able to satisfy the realities of day to day life. I feel that it is a BAD idea to allow yourself to get sucked into purely hormonal and emotional content too quickly-even if you need it badly. It is difficult to see another person clearly through a haze of endorphins and chemicals......which are only animal breeding actractions, in any case. Let that happen later,when you have time to be face to face.[;)]

KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 3:29:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub potentially with someone who is a long distance away while holding off on making attachments that may not hold up once the two people are face-to-face when initial face-to face meetings might not be possible for a long time (due to distance). Long Distance Rules I've got a few rules that I use that have served me well in online/long distance relationships. I consider failure on any point to be a deal breaker. Seems harsh perhaps, but it's one of those things that I've found that if I don't stick with, I get burned. If something online goes from just conversation to something more serious, within three weeks there will be a face to face meeting. It doesn't matter if I have to fly cross country have a cup of coffee, then get on a plane and fly back. I once knew a fellow who waited sixteen months to meet his soul mate, only to find the only truth she had ever told, was her name. Get a phone number that you can call. 24/7 365. If you can only call at special times, with prior OK, there is a wife, a girlfriend, or a mom somewhere you aren't hearing of. If things are that important to you, make at least THREE visits where you spend more than a weekend together. Most long distance relationships don't make it to the third visit. If in three months, somebody isn't willing to move before six months have passed, it's not going to happen. Don't start something hoping that things will somehow work out by magic. If you don't have a plan, don't start what you don't have an end game, don't pick up the ball.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 3:36:04 PM)
Thank you KennelDeSade, these all seem like very wise rules. May i ask did it or would it bother you to fly cross country to just meet for a cup of coffee? i know if i was the submissive that someone had flown across the country to see, i would feel badly if the Dom spent all that time for nothing but a cup of coffee. i would feel more of an obligation whether the Dom ever expressed that or not. However i am sure that is probably just a problem of my own making.

sharainks -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 4:17:25 PM)
Personally I wouldn't move anywhere in less than a year or live with someone, marry, etc. Thats been a rule with me. If a relationship can't make it a year, and many can't, then its not going to make it in a long term relationship. If the couple has what it takes to make it a year they can probably make it work over the long haul.

Falcon40 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 5:00:10 PM)
Finding partners online works because the number of people who are a good match is limited, regardless of whether you have a good local scene to draw on or not. Communication online or on the phone can be easier than at a munch or in a club with half the people you know looking over your shoulder. However, I would be reluctant to invite a submissive to make a commitment without a real meeting. Probably for the same reason that I would not want to make one myself. If you expect to have a real-life relationship, then you have to see what the other person is like - in real life. Communication is one thing, but to most people, Power Exchange is hands-on. The longer one goes without a real-life meeting, the more the chance of disappointment increases because over time, people build a more and more detailed image of what they expect their partner to be like. Personally, I don't want a potential partner to start submitting to her idea of what I should be like, or to a photo of me, but to me as a real person. Another issue with infrequent meetings is that it does not take much to stay in role for a day or a weekend, assuming you are trying. To do that on an ongoing basis is much more difficult.

KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 9:11:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub May i ask did it or would it bother you to fly cross country to just meet for a cup of coffee? Did it, or would it? I've not looked at airfare lately, so my inclination might change a bit, but by bargian shopping I've been able to get flights from west coast to east coast for between 185 and 325 dollars, on a pretty consistant basis. No, I've never gone for just coffee, but once I did leave on day 2 of what was to have been under perfect conditions a seven day stay. The girl was everything I had seen in her online, and not a thing more. All the depth of a sheet of paper. So I rented a car and went visiting everybody I knew within about a five hundred mile radius. I swore someday I'd get an "I'm from the internet, and I'm here to steal your wife" T-shirt. But if things where going that way, and given the disasters I've seen and been involved in, three hundred is cheap insurance. Until you look into another persons eyes, you really know nothing.

Misstoyou -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 9:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub May i ask did it or would it bother you to fly cross country to just meet for a cup of coffee? {smiles} That's all I ever offer.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/28/2006 9:49:59 PM)
I am in a position now where I am meeting my long distance pet for the first time. We have been talking for hours and hours a night on the phone for the last month and a half and the oppertunity presented itself to meet. So, we are talking it. Rules, though, are in place very firmly. We may or may not stay together, he has where to stay if it does not go well enough to spend a weekend together. Also, we are very realistic about whre we want the relationshop to go, if we are a compatible in real life as we are on the phone and online. Though, since everyone here is alreayd on the topic... I am making him finish school first befire I'll allow him to relocate (if it works). This means a year or more apart, long distance. If its important enough, it IS possible, but it is extremely difficult. Making time to travel, finding money to do so, and keeping the relationship together in those dead periods when you cant see one another is rough. Your success will always depend on how seriously you want it to work, and what the relationshp is specificaly your trying to foster. Anyway, my 2 cents, as always DV

heartfeltsub -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/29/2006 4:36:39 AM)
Thank you everyone for some wonderful answers.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/29/2006 6:05:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i know if i was the submissive that someone had flown across the country to see, i would feel badly if the Dom spent all that time for nothing but a cup of coffee. i would feel more of an obligation whether the Dom ever expressed that or not. However i am sure that is probably just a problem of my own making. Yup and one you should discard. You aren't responsible for their choices and they are doing what makes them happy. Useless guilt will rob you of so much pleasure in life.

lisa1978 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/29/2006 7:45:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2 quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub potentially with someone who is a long distance away while holding off on making attachments that may not hold up once the two people are face-to-face when initial face-to face meetings might not be possible for a long time (due to distance). Long Distance Rules I've got a few rules that I use that have served me well in online/long distance relationships. I consider failure on any point to be a deal breaker. Seems harsh perhaps, but it's one of those things that I've found that if I don't stick with, I get burned. If something online goes from just conversation to something more serious, within three weeks there will be a face to face meeting. It doesn't matter if I have to fly cross country have a cup of coffee, then get on a plane and fly back. I once knew a fellow who waited sixteen months to meet his soul mate, only to find the only truth she had ever told, was her name. Get a phone number that you can call. 24/7 365. If you can only call at special times, with prior OK, there is a wife, a girlfriend, or a mom somewhere you aren't hearing of. If things are that important to you, make at least THREE visits where you spend more than a weekend together. Most long distance relationships don't make it to the third visit. If in three months, somebody isn't willing to move before six months have passed, it's not going to happen. Don't start something hoping that things will somehow work out by magic. If you don't have a plan, don't start what you don't have an end game, don't pick up the ball. Technically I do not have a problem with anything in this post. I do believe meeting sooner is better and I think your phone comment is quite valid. I just think your time limits are completely arbritary for no other purpose to put pressure on someone. I just know even if we live five miles a part and saw each other every day that I would not move in with someone after six months, let alone somebody that I am not seeing every day, is a great distance away and would cause one of us to move. We could have hit it off great and when informed of such a strict deadline I would be force to say bye bye. The human heart is not a linear thing. Now do not get me wrong, I believe any long period of time between messages, phone calls and visits is a red flag, and your friend who waited so long made a mistake, but my heart and concerns do not do well with artificial deadlines.

kyraofMists -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/30/2006 7:37:28 PM)
My Lord and I are making a LDR work, but we will not be long distance for much longer. We both agree that this would be next to impossible for either of us if I did not have substantial expendable cash to make the trips to visit and knowing that it is not going to last indefinitely helps ease some of the uncertainty. We try to be creative in finding ways to bridge the distance; we have found things that we can do together even though we are miles apart. For both of us, it is not something that we sought out. My only purpose in going online was to just learn and exchange thoughts with other people who were into BDSM. I met my Lord my first night in a chat room and we started exchanging emails that night. However, neither of us were looking at each other as a potential partner. He just wanted to share his thoughts, opinions and answer my questions and I just wanted to pick his brain. What we discovered was that we both had the character strengths that we admire and want in a life partner. In the six months before we met face to face I did not submit to him, but I did demonstrate that I was motivated to please him. Knight's kyra

KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/30/2006 8:04:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lisa1978 quote: ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2 quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub potentially with someone who is a long distance away while holding off on making attachments that may not hold up once the two people are face-to-face when initial face-to face meetings might not be possible for a long time (due to distance). Long Distance Rules I've got a few rules that I use that have served me well in online/long distance relationships. I consider failure on any point to be a deal breaker. Seems harsh perhaps, but it's one of those things that I've found that if I don't stick with, I get burned. If something online goes from just conversation to something more serious, within three weeks there will be a face to face meeting. It doesn't matter if I have to fly cross country have a cup of coffee, then get on a plane and fly back. I once knew a fellow who waited sixteen months to meet his soul mate, only to find the only truth she had ever told, was her name. Get a phone number that you can call. 24/7 365. If you can only call at special times, with prior OK, there is a wife, a girlfriend, or a mom somewhere you aren't hearing of. If things are that important to you, make at least THREE visits where you spend more than a weekend together. Most long distance relationships don't make it to the third visit. If in three months, somebody isn't willing to move before six months have passed, it's not going to happen. Don't start something hoping that things will somehow work out by magic. If you don't have a plan, don't start what you don't have an end game, don't pick up the ball. Technically I do not have a problem with anything in this post. I do believe meeting sooner is better and I think your phone comment is quite valid. I just think your time limits are completely arbritary for no other purpose to put pressure on someone. I suppose that it's a good thing that I'm only making rules that apply to me and those I'm involved with then. The numbers are not just something I made up to pressure somebody into a decision. Even if I where trying such a thing, the decision would still be theirs, now wouldn't it? But, I've seen how things happen, and while every situation is different, it's different in the same way every single one is. So, I based my deicision on what my experience and observation suggests to me is the best hope for things to work out. If relationships that fall outside those lines fail 85% of the time, I am not one who feels that I am so special that casualty will make exception cause I'm such a swell guy. So yeah, I might pass something good up. But odds are much better I won't spend a year and a half waiting for somebody who will never arrive. Castle Realm was built during a long distance relationship, (show of hands who knows how long) then the girl shows up, and dies. It's considered a reference site by many, and I am not. But, you take advice from people who are living the life you desire, or you are taking the wrong advice. So I'm not disheartened by your critique of my rules. I consider disagreement a much better thing than the agreement of somebody who I can tell only took a glance before writing a reply.

KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/30/2006 8:11:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i know if i was the submissive that someone had flown across the country to see, i would feel badly if the Dom spent all that time for nothing but a cup of coffee. i would feel more of an obligation whether the Dom ever expressed that or not. However i am sure that is probably just a problem of my own making. Yup and one you should discard. You aren't responsible for their choices and they are doing what makes them happy. Useless guilt will rob you of so much pleasure in life.

KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/30/2006 8:20:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i know if i was the submissive that someone had flown across the country to see, i would feel badly if the Dom spent all that time for nothing but a cup of coffee. i would feel more of an obligation whether the Dom ever expressed that or not. However i am sure that is probably just a problem of my own making. Yup and one you should discard. You aren't responsible for their choices and they are doing what makes them happy. Useless guilt will rob you of so much pleasure in life. LA, a home run again. Passive/Agressive depends on unspoken assumptions. It is also a huge hot button issue for me. So, I just decided that I'm too dull to catch such subtext, and I take people at their word, and force them to take me at mine. If somebody says, "don't expect more than coffee" then that's all I expect, or, I don't go. If I say something (and I do not quibble or waffle) then I won't listen to complaints about what somebody else thought I really meant. It makes life SO much more simple.

KnightofMists -> RE: Location, Long Distance Relationships & Submission Before Face-to-Face Meetings (6/30/2006 10:09:05 PM)
This has been a very interesting thread to read. I personally found nothing in the thread that I couldn't relate to or appreciate. Some things I disagree with was more do to personal preferences rather than it being an unthinkable approach. I am impressed with the well thought opinions and ideas that everyone has posted in this thread to this point. I found it very validating to my own situation and nodded and smiled as I compared my situation to what many had shared. Thanks to everyone for giving me a nice fuzzy feeling g Now for my thoughts. As most know Kyra and I have been involved in a LDR for over a year now. As kyra expressed our relationship first began as more of an informal mentorship of sorts. I was just happen to be a guy to answer some questions. The questions turned into some good conversations and in time a friendship evolved. After about 1-2 months, it became apparent to Kyra that she wanted to meet me. For myself, It actually took me 3-4 months before I took her desire to meet me seriously. When I came to this realization I established and express some expectations to Kyra. These expectations were generally to get her out into her community and become exposed to what actually occurs. It was there that she had the good fortune to meet John Warren and obtain her first gift (a birthday present) to me (a signed copy of "The Loving Dominant) Kyra remember me expressing how I lost my own copy and took the opportunity to get me a replacement. We continued to express our thoughts and ideas of relationships and the lifestyle. She learned and grew to further understand my perspective of things and most important my character. In the beginning it was all very much an intellectual exercise but the emotions did grow. I spent a lot of time expressing the challenges of being in a LDR relationship not to forget the challenge of immigrating into the country. In essence, I spend a lot of time deterring her interest on one side and quietly hoping she would come on the other. One thing that was exceptionally important was keeping emotions in check. Not once did I express and type of love or deep affection for her and I made it perfectly clear that her expressing such things to me would be unacceptable. That is not to say that there wasn't some deep emotions being stirred and managed. In particular, the last couple weeks were extremely difficult to manage the emotions that had developed. Once we meet it was an incredible release of stress. One look into her eyes, validated all that I had learned and felt. We had for some time a deep intellectual connection. But, in seconds we validated our emotional connection and also established a deep physical connection. It was one of the most powerful experiences of my life at that moment. In the coming months we worked further on dealing with the realities of a LDR as well as the immigration. We already knew before her first visit that it would be 2-3 years possibily even four years for us to be together. Because of the LDR, we had the reality of travel cost to deal with. In the past year or so we have spent approximately 10 1/2 weeks and next weekend I am going for a three day visit for our 8th time together. With an average of a thousand dollars for each trip a lot of money is being spent to have as much physical time together as possible. But, we also spend a lot of time on the phone. I converse with kyra on average 6-8 times a day and that is usually 2-4 hours of time, but on days off it is easily 8 hours or more. This doesn't include the time that kyra and Alandra spend conversing. Sometimes the three of us over lap in that when I am talking to kyra, her and Alandra are chatting on MSN. One thing that is important is that kyra can call me anytime. She has called me in the middle of night after a nightmare or at work or when I am heading out to a play party. The calls are always a constant expectation and validation that she is apart of my life no matter were we are. She often has worried that I would get annoyed by her calls, but in reality, if she is physical 24/7 with me then it would be more intense than the phone calls. And if she catches me when I am busy no different than face to face, she will get.. Just a minute or call me back in 10-15 minutes. Or she knows that I am unavailable at certain times.. be it a play party or with my parents or meetings etc. The important mindset that we get into is that we are 24/7 involved. We generally know exactly what each is doing at any given moment....mmmmmmmm ok I just heard my girls groan... Ok they know what is going on... I forget and I have to ask to be reminded on more than a few occasions. lol I have been know to call kyra and ask her where Alandra is and it's Duh!!! that's right, I forgot she told me~! It is not just the constant communication and involvement in each others life, but it is also finding things we can do together in a LDR situation. We have rented the same movies and watch them at the same time and stay on the phone together. We have webcam so I can watch her as she watches the movie and talk to her as well. We do this as adults and we also involve the little one in what is regarded as family night. We spend time posting on the boards together and discussing the various thoughts and opinions we see on the boards. She is also reading to me as well. We have finished one book and a quarter the way thru a second one. Yes there is some play as well to take the edge off of things, besides we both have a voyeuristic pleasure, particular for some we care about. We have played computer games as well… I kick her ASS most times G and no she doesn’t let me win! There of course is all the conversations we have on non-lifestyle stuff. We both have managerial careers and this provides a lot of conversation as we sound out thoughts in dealing with work issues and people issues at work. This is only a taste of what we do to make it work. One finally comment and this may seem strange… But have a fight! No don’t go and pick a fight. But, I have found with both Alandra and Kyra that fights or disagreements can have an incredible positive validating effect on ones commitment to each other. I am not talking about a no hold bars type of fight but generally disagreements and difficult issues that you must work thru. Coming out the other end of these things do indeed give the feeling that we are all committed to the relationship. For better or worse! We are committed! btw... sorry for the lengthy post.

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