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Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/15/2013 7:56:33 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Now don't just give us pablum and platitudes.

Tell us who, why and define why you say they are the MSM. Specifically too, not just who is on the screen, who is writing and who owns it although ownership is highly concentrated.

Media began consolidating decades ago and even if it is more or less now, I don't care as far as your answers go. I want the actual reasons why you would conclude that any of our media outlets...are part of the MSM.
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/15/2013 8:04:16 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Now don't just give us pablum and platitudes

Why should we bother?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/15/2013 9:24:19 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		2 words... Bagdikian.

Oh, wait, that's been consolidated to one word.

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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/15/2013 9:32:11 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Well I guess then that by both the replies and the sparseness of them, means that this blog believe there is no longer a MSM and they are almost all under the thumb of the profiteers who profit by the partisanship and lies.

Is it that we just pick a side and maybe we can pretend...that is mainstream ?

Well I am about ready to agree. All there is now is mainstream partisans.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 7/15/2013 9:39:50 PM >

(in reply to Powergamz1)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/15/2013 9:42:29 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Now don't just give us pablum and platitudes.

Tell us who, why and define why you say they are the MSM. Specifically too, not just who is on the screen, who is writing and who owns it although ownership is highly concentrated.

Media began consolidating decades ago and even if it is more or less now, I don't care as far as your answers go. I want the actual reasons why you would conclude that any of our media outlets...are part of the MSM.


I would consider anything of national prominence to be included: Associated Press, the major broadcast and cable networks, leading newspapers, major recording/music companies, major film/TV production companies, that sort of thing. I consider news and entertainment media to be two sides of the same coin, although it seems that most people are just referring to news media when they talk about "the mainstream media." If they're a for-profit enterprise, then they're likely going to fall into the mainstream one way or the other.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/15/2013 10:13:34 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I would consider anything of national prominence to be included: Associated Press, the major broadcast and cable networks, leading newspapers, major recording/music companies, major film/TV production companies, that sort of thing. I consider news and entertainment media to be two sides of the same coin, although it seems that most people are just referring to news media when they talk about "the mainstream media." If they're a for-profit enterprise, then they're likely going to fall into the mainstream one way or the other.


Thanks as usual.
6 in one hand, half dozen in the other.
Most people tend to "watch" and "read" news-sources that will back up their beliefs.
Hence----- those that watch/and believe what they see and hear on FoxNews vs. those that watch/and believe what they see and hear on MSNBC.

As I love to say, we live in an era in which you can find thousands of "news sources" to back up pretty much anything you want to believe.
lol
got a source for that?
got a link for that?

I often prefer critical thinking discussions, without endless "links".
If every thought you have, must be proven/supported by a link, you can play that game into "news sources/links"infinity.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/15/2013 10:15:21 PM >

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"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/15/2013 11:15:03 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

means that this blog believe



Perhaps telling people what they believe isn't the best approach to initiating any sort of reasoned discussion?

I'm happy to get on to a real conversation about the biases of the media, how poorly the dominant paradigm presented in the main stream of the media flow serves us, and how individuals can keep themselves informed. I just require that it happen in the company of people who do real conversation.

G'nite.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 12:11:20 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Its a bit of an oxymoron isn't it. Since so much of what many would call mainstream "msnbc, huffington post..." Hasn't had a mainstream inclination in years...

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 12:23:54 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Well, I believe that radio and TV certainly are not a free medium; that they are beholden to the government for their very ability to exist (FCC licensing). I believe that this makes them little more than glorified mouth-pieces for the government.

Oh, there's some negativity but when was the last time that a broadcast broke a huge story? They "pick up" on others' stories but they don't make their own.

The three biggest political messes that came to my mind were not broken by TV or radio; Watergate, Monica Lewinski, and the Dan Rather mess.

Watergate was the Washington Times. Lewinski was Drudge. Dan Rather was hoisted up by "the blogosphere". Even the Snowden affair was brought to us courtesy of a newspaper.

Now, some of you might say: "But, Michael, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, et al. all have websites, also". Yes, they do but if they really ruffled anyone's feathers on their website, might not the FCC decide to take retribution. Even if the FCC wasn't apt to do so, could the aforementioned entities have a fear that the FCC might do so?

I think that radio and TV have a vested interest in not making too many waves and as such they have just become propaganda outlets for the government.

To me, that is the very definition of "main stream"; never go so far as to really piss people off.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 7/16/2013 12:31:19 AM >

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 1:17:05 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

means that this blog believe



Perhaps telling people what they believe isn't the best approach to initiating any sort of reasoned discussion?

I'm happy to get on to a real conversation about the biases of the media, how poorly the dominant paradigm presented in the main stream of the media flow serves us, and how individuals can keep themselves informed. I just require that it happen in the company of people who do real conversation.

G'nite.

Editing my line is not a valid criticism either or the beginning of a real conversation. As for any so-called 'dominant paradigm' of the main stream media...means nothing without saying who that MSM is and why you think it is which is what I asked in the first place and particularly when you didn't even want to bother with answering it.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 1:23:14 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Its a bit of an oxymoron isn't it. Since so much of what many would call mainstream "msnbc, huffington post..." Hasn't had a mainstream inclination in years...

Well it is not an oxymoron without defining what you think [it] is besides one cable channel and one political commentary website. To me, that's your example of there not being one MSM at all. Would I be correct in that assessment ?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 1:36:42 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Well, I believe that radio and TV certainly are not a free medium; that they are beholden to the government for their very ability to exist (FCC licensing). I believe that this makes them little more than glorified mouth-pieces for the government.

Oh, there's some negativity but when was the last time that a broadcast broke a huge story? They "pick up" on others' stories but they don't make their own.

The three biggest political messes that came to my mind were not broken by TV or radio; Watergate, Monica Lewinski, and the Dan Rather mess.

Watergate was the Washington Times. Lewinski was Drudge. Dan Rather was hoisted up by "the blogosphere". Even the Snowden affair was brought to us courtesy of a newspaper.

Now, some of you might say: "But, Michael, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, et al. all have websites, also". Yes, they do but if they really ruffled anyone's feathers on their website, might not the FCC decide to take retribution. Even if the FCC wasn't apt to do so, could the aforementioned entities have a fear that the FCC might do so?

I think that radio and TV have a vested interest in not making too many waves and as such they have just become propaganda outlets for the government.

To me, that is the very definition of "main stream"; never go so far as to really piss people off.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

I think you are on to something here and no big deal but Watergate was broken by the Washington Post as the Times didn't exist then. It formed in 82, one year after the failure of the Washington Star.

Seems to be the vast majority of 'news' is 'broken' by the AP or Reuters...the rest pick up on it. Plus Snowden broke his story through the Guardian through a man named Glenn Greenwald. Plus I'll put up there higher than most...the Iran-Contra scandal exposed by Ash-Shiraa, a magazine of Lebanon.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 4:44:52 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Well I guess then that by both the replies and the sparseness of them, means that this blog believe there is no longer a MSM and they are almost all under the thumb of the profiteers who profit by the partisanship and lies.
Is it that we just pick a side and maybe we can pretend...that is mainstream ?
Well I am about ready to agree. All there is now is mainstream partisans.


I think what is generally referred to as the MSM, are the television news outlets (including their websites); MSNBC, CNN, Fox News Channel, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. Some may also include newspapers, too. I think "mainstream" has to do with where the majority prefer to get their "news." While that has changed greatly since the 90's (internet), there are still many news outlets that operate both as MSM (as defined in this post) and as an "alternative" source of news.

With so many options available, I think the MSM category is more a reference to the former traditional news sources, rather than simply the largest or the most popular.

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  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
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  • Limited Government
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(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 8:56:10 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I think you are on to something here and no big deal but Watergate was broken by the Washington Post as the Times didn't exist then.



Fuck me, running! What I consider to be a watershed moment of my young life (I was not quite ten when Tricky Dicky resigned. I read Woodward and Bernstien's book before the movie came out, etc.).

I have recounted on these very forums that I was a very young kid but absolutely mezmerized by Watergate. A kid, living in Brooklyn, giving up afternoons of stickball to watch the hearings on channel 13 was not the norm...

All of that, and I fucked up the paper of record

You're right, of course. I mis-typed. I'm truly embarrassed.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 7:21:35 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

For me, one important aspect of the mainstream/traditional media has been that the content goes through some sort of vetting process by seasoned professionals. Perfectly and flawlessly? Of course not. But with a rigor I haven't noticed in, say, partisan blogs or much of talk radio.

Sadly, economic woes and the maw of the 24-hour news cycle have eroded that heritage.



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 8:00:45 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

For me, one important aspect of the mainstream/traditional media has been that the content goes through some sort of vetting process by seasoned professionals. Perfectly and flawlessly? Of course not. But with a rigor I haven't noticed in, say, partisan blogs or much of talk radio.




I can't help but think there's Sum Ting Wong in giving them too much credit for that, DC.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 9:36:59 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I can't help but think there's Sum Ting Wong in giving them too much credit for that, DC.

Twu In Deed.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 11:20:43 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Well, I believe that radio and TV certainly are not a free medium; that they are beholden to the government for their very ability to exist (FCC licensing). I believe that this makes them little more than glorified mouth-pieces for the government.

Oh, there's some negativity but when was the last time that a broadcast broke a huge story? They "pick up" on others' stories but they don't make their own.

The three biggest political messes that came to my mind were not broken by TV or radio; Watergate, Monica Lewinski, and the Dan Rather mess.

Watergate was the Washington Times. Lewinski was Drudge. Dan Rather was hoisted up by "the blogosphere". Even the Snowden affair was brought to us courtesy of a newspaper.

Now, some of you might say: "But, Michael, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, et al. all have websites, also". Yes, they do but if they really ruffled anyone's feathers on their website, might not the FCC decide to take retribution. Even if the FCC wasn't apt to do so, could the aforementioned entities have a fear that the FCC might do so?

I think that radio and TV have a vested interest in not making too many waves and as such they have just become propaganda outlets for the government.

To me, that is the very definition of "main stream"; never go so far as to really piss people off.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


CNN, Fox, MSNBC and other cable outlets are not regulated by the FCC, because they don't broadcast a signal over the public airwaves, and they don't have a federal license to broadcast. The FCC cannot crack down for political content, in theory broadcasters get their license because they serve 'the public interest', but in reality the FCC has limited jurisdiction, primarily in things like obscenity and inapporopriate material at certain times. On cable it generally is the advertiser supported shows that are limited, on pay cable channels like HBO the FCC has no sway at all.

What limits broadcasters is not the FCC, it is a combination of their advertisers and also their corporate owners. Once upon the TV networks were their own masters, today they are owned by huge conglomerates like Viacom, and corporations are not exactly happy about tv rocking the boat. TV once upon a time did break stories, people like Edward R Murrow taking down that bloated piece of shit McCarthy, Kronkite at Tet questioning the vietnam war (a lesson the military learned, tv coverage of wars these days is nothing more then pro military propoganda), shows like 60 minutes broke a lot of stories, investigative journalism once thrived...but these days, they are too fearful of advertisers and pissing off their corporate bosses.

I think mainstream media could be considered the things that most people are exposed to/use for information. What is very disconcerting is that legitimate journalism is dying, what we have today is a world of factoids, rather than news, we get crap like "Obama isn't a US citizen, his birth certificate isn't the right color" and the like. Newspapers, which once broke great stories like watergate and The Pentagon Papers, are dying, and what is replacing them is a wild, wild west of 'news sites', like NewsMax, that are nothing more then stuff someone made up, or some of the drivel on Fox News and MSNBC that I wonder what planet they are on (Fox News, for example, maintained for years that Saddam was behind 9/11, claiming there was proof, and that Iraq had WMD's, long after both were discredited; it is no wonder that people whose primary news source is Fox News when quizzed are often more ignorant of what is going on then people who claim to be total non news readers/watchers). The real problem is the concentrations of ownership, News Corp that owns papers and tv stations in the same market (it once was forbidden), fewer and fewer companies own radio stations (clear channel owns a large percentage), which means the diverse voices are getting squeezed out.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/16/2013 11:33:43 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Holy crap! CNN (Owned by Time Warner), Fox (Owned by Murdoch) and (P)MSNBC (Owned by NBC/GE) all have "public airwaves" concerns.

Please. PLEASE. PLEASE try to understand that while I didn't cover every little aspect, the plain truth is that ALL broadcast media - be they on "public airwaves" or cable or Sirius - have entities that do fall under the auspices of the FCC and while you chose to believe that government can never be nefarious, I know better. I've had personal experience with the shitty end of the stick.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to njlauren)
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RE: Just what is the Mainstream media...and why ? - 7/17/2013 3:31:36 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I think you are on to something here and no big deal but Watergate was broken by the Washington Post as the Times didn't exist then.



Fuck me, running! What I consider to be a watershed moment of my young life (I was not quite ten when Tricky Dicky resigned. I read Woodward and Bernstien's book before the movie came out, etc.).

I have recounted on these very forums that I was a very young kid but absolutely mezmerized by Watergate. A kid, living in Brooklyn, giving up afternoons of stickball to watch the hearings on channel 13 was not the norm...

All of that, and I fucked up the paper of record

You're right, of course. I mis-typed. I'm truly embarrassed.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

Not a big deal. My worry is that there will be no more Watergates if only because the press now seek info. to publish by means of traveling the path of least resistance.

Bosses will shoot it down like Ben Bradely didn't and otherwise...people will be scared.


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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