RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:12:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Nope,damm it how did I become so uninformed
Lol,lots of shit going on,a lot of traveling and another procedure(back) scheduled for friday .

Good luck with the procedure.



slvemike4u -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:13:44 PM)

Would have done better making sure he was never elected in the first place.
What a fucking trainwreck.



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:14:30 PM)

Rep Williams there said they were discussing changing the SYG laws. I will believe it when I see it.



MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:21:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

It may seem cold, but there are reasons you wouldn't want to try to render assistance. One being that if you just shot them, and then are seen kneeling over them, it could be inferred you were trying to 'finish the job'. Another reason is that they might still have some fight left and a weapon on them and you could end up shot or stabbed (which you were trying to avoid in the first place). No, better to call for aid, and if someone else comes along, let them try to help. I know it doesn't seem nice, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

I think if you are trying to help someone who is shot/hurt its gonna look different than "finishing the guy".. well,.. not unless you have your hands around his throat and are throttling.. I think it was pretty obvious (based on Zimmys own statements and first on the scene) that the kid was not moving or had any "fight" left in him, not to mention, the kid didnt have any gun or knife, just skittles and his cell.. and according to a statement Zimmy made, he was on top of Martin and spread his arms out, so I think its safe to say the kid had no fight at all.. the cops that got there first did try to render aid to the kid (they obviously also didnt feel the kid had any "fight" left in him).. I have heard of other people that shot someone who was attacking them and they tried to help that person until the ambulance got there.. for a guy that wanted to be a cop, where helping hurt people is part of the job until paramedics etc get there.. it just struck me he behaved very oddly, coldly and imo he lied cuz he knew the kid was already dead (which is why he was pacing and trying to get his embelished story straight in his mind for the cops).. I dunno.. if you shot someone who is just laying there bleeding, you would just stand there with your hands in your pocket? or is that the way everyone in this society is like? ok, then.. [8|]


This may be hard for you to process, seeing as how everyone assumes that Zimmerman is a slavering racist sociopath, but maybe, just maybe, he might have been in shock that he'd just shot and killed another human being? And maybe he wasn't just like "other people" who immediately leaped to aid. His reaction (or lack therof) was probably related to why he didn't pass the psych exam to be a cop. They do try to screen people who don't respond well under pressure and this looks to be the case here. Everyone reacts differently under stress.



slvemike4u -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:22:05 PM)

Thanks Bama.


SYG ,what a fucking joke.Hunting licenses is what they wind up being .



MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:23:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

My point is that political and media forces are trying to use this event to gin up outrage and disharmony in order to effect some of the things they've been trying to get for a long time (gun control, one-party system, class warfare, etc). I don't doubt for a minute that at some level, there are people who want riots breaking out in order to justify some 'social engineering' on a grand scale.

well.. if there was no racial discord in the US then political and media forces would not be able to gin up the outrage in the first place.. [8|]

Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place? This is an old game for those in power, you know. If you keep the serfs off-balance, they can't concentrate on taking you down, to use a simple analogy.



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:25:13 PM)

quote:

seeing as how everyone assumes that Zimmerman is a slavering racist sociopath


Everyone?



MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:27:28 PM)

General term. A lot of people have gotten bent out of shape over this for no good reason other than allowing themselves to be swayed by emotional arguments.



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:30:08 PM)

Only speaking for myself, I can see why many are questioning it. Do I agree with them? No. But to negate the feelings will do no good. I mean, less than 50 years ago it was still quite legal to have white only water fountains, to turn high power water hoses on blacks, and to even sic (?) dogs on them. Many of that generation are still around.



MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:34:52 PM)

And still influencing public policy. Look, I don't like when any 17 year old dies needlessly, but the facts are simple: he was found not guilty of the crime. Maybe not innocent, but not guilty. When people are raving about lynching him and his family, based on what happened in the past to their people, isn't right. We're supposed to be a nation of laws, not blind emotion.



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 9:57:34 PM)

Yet emotions are what changes laws. It was the emotional belief that all men were created equal, not just white men, that changed the laws of slavery... and these people have been battling one law after another ever since.

They see the SYG law as wrong. If they can affect change as a result of their emotions, they are walking in very good food steps. After all, the US began as an emotional anger over taxation, didnt it?



MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 10:07:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet emotions are what changes laws. It was the emotional belief that all men were created equal, not just white men, that changed the laws of slavery... and these people have been battling one law after another ever since.

They see the SYG law as wrong. If they can affect change as a result of their emotions, they are walking in very good food steps. After all, the US began as an emotional anger over taxation, didnt it?

You are quite right that emotions began the process. You need to remember also that it took some time for that process to be made into a coherent system too. Knee-jerk reactions without considering the totality of their effects very often have unintended consequences. Just for shits and giggles, look up the Salem Witch Trials for an example of this.



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 10:19:20 PM)

I am well aware of those trials. And while I have seen many words, I have seen very little "violence", indicating to me that people are thinking, desiring change, despite the anger they may feel. You may believe they are wrong about the case outcome, but its hard to argue with their history or how they are handling it now.

Example... the LA Riots.

The acquittals of the four accused Los Angeles Police Department officers came at 3:15 pm local time. By 3:45, a crowd of more than 300 people had appeared at the Los Angeles County Courthouse protesting the verdicts passed down a half an hour earlier.

.......

At approximately 6:45 pm, Reginald Oliver Denny, a white truck driver who stopped at a traffic light at the intersection of Florence and Normandie Avenues, was dragged from his vehicle and severely beaten by a mob of local black residents as a television news helicopter hovered above

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots#First_day_.28Wednesday.2C_April_29.2C_1992.29

A knee jerk reaction many were foretelling would have happened that day... or the next. Yet, excluding a few small incidents, we are seeing nothing on this scale. Seems to me both sides have their own fears in regards to race, and race relations are equally as bad on both sides of the isle.



SadistDave -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 2:29:38 AM)

-FR-

Speaking of SYG and knee-jerk reactions... If anyone has been been watching the news today, everyone from Steve Harvey to Stevie Wonder have been spouting bullshit about how SYG laws are a lisence to kill black people or some such sillines. Wonder's knee-jerk reaction included a vow to boycott Florida until SYG is repealed. Okay... they have a platform as public figures and some people actually care about what entertainers have to say. But then, Eric Holder has been spouting nonsense about SYG for 2 days now, and unfortunately people are forced to pay attention to that fucking moron because of his position in government. So, when Holder spouts nonsense about how SYG needs to be repealed so blacks can have equality under the law, people really do believe the shit coming out of his mouth.

Why? Well another interesting thing in the news yesterday was something that was discussed here way back when Mad Dog Martin attacked Zimmerman and got himself killed. Apparently, it turns out that SYG has a higher success rate to defend blacks in Florida (by percent) than any other demographic. The Tampa Bay Times put up an interesting interactive report on SYG, which sort of puts the ignorance of jackasses like Eric Holder and Stevie Wonder in perspective.

-SD-



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 2:42:03 AM)

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/

Yes, we know. Its been posted.

In this case, there is a very clear dichotomy. For killings involving victims of color—black or Hispani—78 percent of the time the death was considered justified. For killings involving white victims, that rate sinks to 56 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/no-blacks-dont-benefit-floridas-stand-ground-law-133951308.html

Data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation similarly showed that nationwide, 34 percent of cases involving a white shooter and a black victim were deemed justifiable, while "in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/07/17/fox-daily-caller-mislead-on-stand-your-ground-t/194933

The disparity between these outcomes should be shocking. But, sadly, it’s not, once you take into account the fact that Wald is white and Alexander is black. The “stand your ground” law is notorious for being applied in a biased and inconsistent way. The Tampa Bay Times found that defendants claiming “stand your ground” are more successful if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty. Only 59 percent of those who killed a white person got off. The Urban Institute determined that in “stand your ground” states, when white shooters kill black victims, 34 percent of the resulting homicides are deemed justifiable. When black shooters kill white victims only 3 percent of the deaths are ruled justifiable.

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/11/stand_your_ground_law_helps_white_defendants_a_lot_more_than_black_ones/



Kana -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 3:33:40 AM)

And other than the fact that Holder is such a lousy attorney he can't keep track of case law, why are we discussing SYG again? ( I say this because Holder kept bringing it up at the NAACP)
Z didn't claim it. His lawyers never used it (though it could be used in the future for civil/federal hate crimes trials)-they stuck with the tried and true, all American self defense strategy,invoked SYG a grand total of zero times. The only people who are making this about SYG have an issue with SYG and are using this case as a vehicle to advance their interests, whatever they are.

Could it be,dubious a prospect as it may sound, that the administration is taking advantage of a tragedy to attempt to push their gun control activism?

I know, I'm skeptical too. It's not like these are the same people who paraded grieving Newtown relatives in front of the press and congress while the bodies were still warm in an attempt to further their own political agendas, but one has to examine the possibility...



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 3:36:59 AM)

It could be. I dont know. I do know people are angry, but at least that anger is directed in a more health way now.



dcnovice -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 4:57:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Sometimes I am still amazed that 1964 was only 49 years ago.

True. In our eagerness to consign racism to the distant past, we often forget that there are folks alive today who went to segregated schools and could not vote in some places.



dcnovice -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 4:59:41 AM)

quote:

Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place?

My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves.



dcnovice -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:02:31 AM)

quote:

another procedure(back) scheduled for friday .

All the best, Mike! May your recovery be swift and sure and steady.



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