RE: Snowden gets shot.... (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 7:22:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I always speak for myself. Did I post words for you? Would be interesting if I could do that. Why dont you teach me?

Frankly, my dear, I dont give a damn if you are pissed. I was speaking of the countries you indicated were pissed.



There are some folks,who as a rule are against any spying. They were before 9/11 and took guff after the attacks for apposing the Patriot Act.The sincere ones, both left and right.


Then there`s the true paranoids who "read '1984' when they were kids and it scared the crap out of them".

As adult children, they are still irrationally frightened ,of anything that "smacks" or sounds Orwelian.Like the right`s abuse of the n-word(Nazi),Orwell references are so overused,that they could mean anything, either way.

And there are the cock-suckers like Sarah Palin who were fine with the program when it was shrub`s,but now roil the knuckle draggers with little witty ditties like "Obama lied, government spied"


I`m for(as are most normal Americans) a robust program with independent oversight/checks.And that`s what we have.


We can`t let our enemies both within and abroad, take advantage of advanced technologies and use them against us.


The only folks who really need to worry are those plotting violence and they should.


And news flash, those are the very same folks who`re most against a reasonable program.





Zonie63 -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 8:31:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

So you guys feel Snowden is a traitor or hero?


At this point, I would say there's the potential that he could be one or the other - or neither.

If we assume that his motives are pure, that he's simply being a whistleblower against blatant violations of the Constitution by our government, then he might be a hero. On the other hand, that's all the more reason to come back to the United States and face the music. It might be more heroic to stand up for one's principles in court, even if it means a prison sentence. Let all the facts be brought to light in open court. That's what I'd like to see - more openness and transparency in government, not all this cloak-and-dagger BS.

I think that his impetuous flight overseas may have actually hurt his case, at least in the eyes of Americans. It's one thing to fight the good fight here on American soil, but to ask for outside intervention and to aid potential adversaries may not be the wisest thing to do. At best, it's misguided and naive.

I think the answer to the question mainly lies in Snowden's true motives for doing all this, and that's still unclear. The countries involved in this have now had some time in studying Snowden and trying to gauge where he's coming from. If I was in their place, I'd be studying him very closely to determine whether he's genuine or some kind of kook or just out for the attention. Any country taking him in would be taking a risk, and they have to determine whether or not this guy is really worth the risk. That may explain Putin's odd statements on the matter; perhaps the Russians have already figured this guy out and think he's not really worth that much.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 10:23:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

So you guys feel Snowden is a traitor or hero?



I don't view him as either. He's simply a guy that thought he might be doing the right thing and it blew up in his face. There's nothing about the NSA gathering data that surprises me in the least. But if the guy had half a brain he would have stayed in Hong Kong.




erieangel -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 10:35:39 AM)

quote:

On the other hand, that's all the more reason to come back to the United States and face the music. It might be more heroic to stand up for one's principles in court, even if it means a prison sentence. Let all the facts be brought to light in open court. That's what I'd like to see - more openness and transparency in government,


Perhaps that would have been possible a decade or so ago. That isn't possible in today's America, not with the Patriot Act.





Rule -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 10:46:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I think he is someone's patsy.

You may very well be right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Oh please. This is all old business, they spy on us, we spy on them. No one is pissed.

I concur.




papassion -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 12:49:03 PM)

First, Putin has no use for Obama. When they were sitting together, that was painfully obvious. The FACT that he hasn't sent Snowden back to the US, and Putin saying Snowden CAN"T leak any more secrets while in Russia, was rubbing Obama's face in it! Anyone with common sense knows Putin's boys are working over Snowden for information.

Putin is an old school hard line Kremlin guy. When Russia gets all the information they can get from Snowden, Putin will send him back to the US, or allow him to "escape." AFTER they get all the useful information. More humiliation to Obama. Hell, maybe Putin has an account on Collar me and is into humiliation!

This "egg on his face', all countries spy on each other," statement from Obama. Are you gullible enough to believe that other countries moniter ALL phone and internet messages? That they also have a monster information storage facility like we have in Utah? Baaaa! Baaaa!

Yeah, started by Bush but taken to fanatical levels by Obama. If this plan is so effective, How did Boston happen? especially after TWO warnings from Russia about the guy. The monitoring is not effective or Obama's FBI are the Keystone Cops!




mnottertail -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 12:50:24 PM)

They dont monitor content. The rest is as per usual, asswipe.




tj444 -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 1:34:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh please. This is all old business, they spy on us, we spy on them. No one is pissed.

this argument put forth by the govt of "they spy on us".. oh please, that is just like what children say.. "but mommy, he hit me first!" .. why did the US govt for years deny they did this then? now when they are found to be liars, they use the "well they spy on us" line.. except they spy on their allies as well as their enemies.. yes, people are pissed.. and even some Africans were protesting Obama and telling him to "go home".. lol

"American Millennials ages 18-34 by 70% and those over-35 people by 77% that “no one should ever be allowed to have access to my personal data or web behavior.”"
http://www.chrissstreetandcompany.com/2013/06/millennials-rejecting-democrats-due-spying/




tazzygirl -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 4:51:22 PM)

quote:

this argument put forth by the govt of "they spy on us".. oh please, that is just like what children say.. "but mommy, he hit me first!" .. why did the US govt for years deny they did this then? now when they are found to be liars, they use the "well they spy on us" line.. except they spy on their allies as well as their enemies.. yes, people are pissed.. and even some Africans were protesting Obama and telling him to "go home".. lol


I was saying they were spying when they were saying they didnt.

Millenials are more likely to be gullible, not fact check any sources, and will basically believe anything they are told repeatedly, as evidenced by the insanity I see posted on FB daily.

As far as international spying, these are among many....

Embassies and other diplomatic posts are often the targets of bugging operations.

The Soviet embassy in Ottawa was bugged by the Canadian government and MI5 during its construction.[citation needed]

Extensive bugging of the West German embassy in Moscow by the KGB was discovered by German engineer Horst Schwirkmann, leading to an attack on Schwirkmann in 1964.[11]

The Great Seal bug was hidden in a copy of the Great Seal of the United States, presented by the Soviet Union to the United States ambassador in Moscow in 1946 (not discovered until 1952). The bug was unusual in that it had no power source or transmitter, making it much harder to detect – it was a new type of device, called a passive resonant cavity bug. The cavity had a metallic diaphragm that moved in unison with sound waves from a conversation in the room. When illuminated by a radio beam from a remote location, the cavity would return a frequency modulated signal.

The United States Embassy in Moscow was bugged during its construction in the 1970s by Soviet agents posing as laborers. When discovered in the early 1980s, it was found that even the concrete columns were so riddled with bugs that the building eventually had to be torn down and replaced with a new one, built with U.S. materials and labor.[12] For a time, until the new building was completed, embassy workers had to communicate in conference rooms in writing, using children's "Mystic Writing Tablets".[citation needed]

In 1990, it was reported that the embassy of the People's Republic of China in Canberra, Australia, had been bugged by the Australian Secret Intelligence Service as part of the UKUSA Project Echelon.[13]

Colin Thatcher, a Canadian politician, was secretly recorded making statements which would later be used to convict him of his wife's murder. The recording device was concealed on a person who Thatcher had previously approached for help in the crime.[citation needed]

Electronic bugging devices were found in March 2003 at offices used by French and German delegations at the European Union headquarters in Brussels. Devices were also discovered at offices used by other delegations. The discovery of the telephone tapping systems was first reported by Le Figaro newspaper, which blamed the US.[citation needed]

The car of Thomas Hentschell, who was involved in the Melbourne gangland killings, was bugged by police.

In 1999, the US expelled a Russian diplomat, accusing him of using a listening device in a top floor conference room used by diplomats in the United States Department of State headquarters.[14]

In 2001, the government of the People's Republic of China announced that it had discovered twenty-seven bugs in a Boeing 767 purchased as an official aircraft for President Jiang Zemin.[15]

In 2003, the Pakistani embassy building in London was found bugged; contractors hired by MI5 had planted bugs in the building in 2001.[16]

In 2003, Alastair Campbell (who was Director of Communications and Strategy from 1997-2003 for the UK PM) in his memoirs The Blair Years: The Alastair Campbell Diaries alleged that two bugs were discovered in the hotel room meant for visiting British PM Tony Blair planted by Indian intelligence agencies.The alleged bug discovery was at a hotel during PM Tony Blair's official visit to New Delhi in 2001. Security services supposedly informed him that the bugs could not be removed without drilling the wall and therefore he changed to another room.[17][18]

In 2004, a bug was found in a meeting room at the United Nations offices in Geneva.[citation needed]

In 2008 it was reported that an electric samovar presented to Elizabeth II in about 1968 by a Soviet aerobatic team was removed from Balmoral Castle as a security precaution amid fears that its wiring could contain a listening device.[19]




MrRodgers -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 4:55:31 PM)

The Naziasation of America continues.




tazzygirl -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 4:56:30 PM)

I dont see it stopping no matter who is in power.




TNDommeK -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 7:17:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

So you guys feel Snowden is a traitor or hero?


At this point, I would say there's the potential that he could be one or the other - or neither.

If we assume that his motives are pure, that he's simply being a whistleblower against blatant violations of the Constitution by our government, then he might be a hero. On the other hand, that's all the more reason to come back to the United States and face the music. It might be more heroic to stand up for one's principles in court, even if it means a prison sentence. Let all the facts be brought to light in open court. That's what I'd like to see - more openness and transparency in government, not all this cloak-and-dagger BS.
Putin's odd statements on the matter; perhaps the Russians have already figured this guy out and think he's not really worth that much.


I would afraid something would happen. If he is telling these secrets, don't you think they might try to kill him before he makes it to court? I mean our gov has done some pretty F'ed up crap.




Real0ne -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 7:50:18 PM)

he is a hero to the people and a traitor to the corporations. aka government

[image]http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y410/mypbemotes/gub/imacccge_zps6fd52691.png[/image]

people are such authority suckers today the only way something has any level of legitimacy is if God goes on national television and makes a press statement.









tj444 -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 8:17:58 PM)

I think when people are younger they believe more stuff more readily, maybe as a person gets older and older, they turn into grumpy old farts that complain about everything!.. [:D]

I dont think bugging a suspect to solve a local crime is spying, its just trying to solve the crime.. at least that is how I view those situations.. and its different than wholesale recording/storing of emails or phone call details, etc for an entire population(s).. there is no reason to think that info could not be used for other purposes, like the irs scanning for certain words/phrases without justification or suspicion.. the govt has this way of introducing some law for one reason and then the public finds out they used it in a miriad of other ways.. basically bait and switch..

Colin Thatcher is an extremely dispicable person who spent decades in jail and continues to deny he killed his wife.. he turned his kids against their mother and continued to poison their minds after she was dead... hope there is a very special place in hell for that POS..

all these spy incidents make me wonder if that Super Bowl ring Putin (allegedly) stole might have a bug in it.. lol




Zonie63 -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 9:02:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

So you guys feel Snowden is a traitor or hero?


At this point, I would say there's the potential that he could be one or the other - or neither.

If we assume that his motives are pure, that he's simply being a whistleblower against blatant violations of the Constitution by our government, then he might be a hero. On the other hand, that's all the more reason to come back to the United States and face the music. It might be more heroic to stand up for one's principles in court, even if it means a prison sentence. Let all the facts be brought to light in open court. That's what I'd like to see - more openness and transparency in government, not all this cloak-and-dagger BS.
Putin's odd statements on the matter; perhaps the Russians have already figured this guy out and think he's not really worth that much.


I would afraid something would happen. If he is telling these secrets, don't you think they might try to kill him before he makes it to court? I mean our gov has done some pretty F'ed up crap.



Yes, they have done some pretty messed up things, but I'm not sure if they would try to kill him. I suppose it would depend on whether he can do any more damage to the U.S. government than he already has. Killing him would just make him into a martyr, and it would just make a bad situation worse.






Zonie63 -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 9:39:32 PM)

The next installment of the saga: As Snowden’s options narrow, landing of Bolivian president’s flight adds to intrigue

quote:

MOSCOW — Bolivian President Evo Morales’s plane, ferrying him home from Moscow, was redirected to Vienna late Tuesday after France and Portugal refused to allow it to enter their airspace because of the belief that the American fugitive Edward Snowden was aboard, said Bolivian and Venezuelan authorities.

Snowden, who revealed secret U.S. surveillance programs and fled to Moscow to stay beyond American reach, was not aboard the plane, an irate David Choquehuanca, Bolivia’s foreign minister, told reporters after the Bolivian delegation landed in Vienna. “We don’t know who invented this lie,” he said from Bolivia’s capital, La Paz.

...

But the diverting of Morales’s plane is sure to fan anger against the United States, which is trying to play down new revelations of spying against European allies while trying to win support to corral Snowden even from countries such as Russia, Bolivia and Venezuela, which are sharply at odds with the Obama administration.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elias Jaua called the incident over Austria “an attempt on Evo Morales’s life.” He said it was a sign of how far “the empire” — a reference to the United States — and its “lackeys” would go “to hunt down a young man who has only said the truth.”

Bolivia’s defense minister, Ruben Saavedra, who was on the flight, also blamed the United States, telling Bolivian media that “this proves with clarity an attitude of sabotage and plotting by the United States, pressuring European government.” He said that Italy, too, had barred Morales’s plane from its airspace.







Owner59 -> RE: Snowden gets shot.... (7/2/2013 11:24:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They dont monitor content. The rest is as per usual, asswipe.



And laughingly, all Obama centered......


Do this kids know that not everything in the world revolves around Barack Obama?




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