RE: Feelings and Responsibility

RE: Feelings and Responsibility (Full Version)

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CreativeDominant -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 11:30:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin fast reply..... If 10 Dominants ask me to go out with them....and I give them the exact same answer, in the exact same tone, "Thank you for your interest in me and I am flattered by your offer, however, I don't think we would make a good match and I will respectfully have to decline"....you can bet that there will be 10 different responses. Dominant #1 may think it was cool and appreciate the fact that I didn't waste his time.....all the way up to Dominant #10 may crushed by my rejection and may just go out and blow his head off. I'm sure there would also be many reactions in between. Am I responsible for the feelings that they choose....yes I said choose....to own? I think not. We all have the power to choose what we walk away owning. The point has been made though, mist, that the level and the appropriateness of the feelings experienced by the person on the receiving end of your actions are their own. To say that you, through your actions, caused things does not necessarily make you wrong or a hurtful person or whatever adjective you wish to use. For a contrast, if you say to these dominants (each and every one) "Yes, I would love to go out with you. I am flattered that you asked me", one may feel orgasmically ecstatic and one may feel disappointed ('cuz maybe he's one of those guys who just likes to see how many girls will say "no" to his overtures to prove his "theory" that all women are coldhearted and you just ruined his average and now he has to follow through). Your action...the acceptance of their invitation...provoked/caused their feelings. Are you responsible for creating those feelings? Yes. Are you responsible for the level (orgasmic ecstasy over just a date)? No. Are you responsible for the inappropriate response? No...for an inappropriate response...one that would be regarded as apart from the expected response...comes about from someone with a problem that was present before you came along. As meatcleaver said, there could be a whole philosophical treatise written on this subject.[8\|]

eruditegirl1 -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 11:30:42 AM)
I agree that taking responsibility for one's own feelings...actions....etc...is a very healthy attitude....but you also need to be mentally healthy to understand and realize that no one has the power with words or actions to hurt you....so if I say something to a unbalanced person....then in part I have to take responsibility for the my actions in the words I have just caused them to have feelings about....again...how they take it...digest it...feel it...is up to them...but my words and choice are my responsibility....so it is a little more complicated than...me saying to someone with low self esteem...."Wow...that dress makes you look like a blimp"...if she chooses to feel hurt ...it is on her...but I have to accept the responsibility that I am a bitch for saying that in the first place....

lisa1978 -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 11:35:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse But you see lisa I believe we can control our feelings, I don't mean to shut them off or disregard them but we can control them. For instance, someone could tell me "you are fat!" Now, I cannot control wether or not they said it but I can determine how I will feel and react to that. My first impulse would probably be to get my wittle feelings hurt and strike back with a more vile and hurtful comment. Bad idea! What I would choose to do would be consider the source and therefor their purpose for uttering it. I can also control how I feel about MYSELF and wether or not I am giving their statement any validation. To a troubled young woman with her own self image issues that starves herself to nothing but skin and bones like we see in the media all to often I would be fat! If someone is saying it just to get a rise out of me, then there is NO WAY I am going to validate their comment. That is one of the most patheticly sad attacks I have seen online when they cannot think of anything else to say. I will just laugh and crack a joke about it. If it is a child saying it to me in a bikini at the beach, I would probably agree and admit I didn't belong in the bloody bikini at this age and a size 14. If it were my doctor and they were telling me that I am fat and need to lose weight for my health......then I would take it seriously, grumble, and agree. My point is that no, we cannot control how people will treat us but yes, we really can control how we will react to their treatment. How we going to let it affect us both short term and long term. I was a sexually molested child, that sucks. Guess what there are alot of people, even some that I have great respect for on this site, that I KNOW suffered much much worse. I cannot and could not do anything about what some creep did to a 11 year old girl 33 years ago but I can control how I feel about it and how I allow it to affect me. I am responsible for that. I don't know if any of that makes any sense to anyone but me but it sure beats the hell out of spending a lifetime feeling sorry for oneself and using crap we could not control as an excuse for why we continue to screw up and refuse to take responsibility for it. I agree 100% with pretty much everything you wrote to a degree. My two points that would differ is that you cannot and more importantly should not try to control all emotional levels because that can be hurtful and unhealthy. So some jerk calls me a bitch it is my problem if it upsets me or causes a bad decision on my part. That is wrong and therefore control of my feelings is important. On the otherhand, a person calling someone fat to their face as a way to insult them who they know is having struggles with their weight and lost a boyfriend because of that for example in my mind should not get a free pass in society. My second point is not that people should not be responsible for their feelings, because they should, but that people who use this theory as an absolute are not doing it to help other people or themselves but use it as an excuse for rude behavior and self centerness. Again, I do not mean people should say everything in a sugar coating. There is a big difference. We as human beings are social creatures and social interaction is part of us. Absolutes are just not condusive for positive interactions.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 11:43:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse But you see lisa I believe we can control our feelings, I don't mean to shut them off or disregard them but we can control them. For instance, someone could tell me "you are fat!" Now, I cannot control wether or not they said it but I can determine how I will feel and react to that. My first impulse would probably be to get my wittle feelings hurt and strike back with a more vile and hurtful comment. Bad idea! What I would choose to do would be consider the source and therefor their purpose for uttering it. I can also control how I feel about MYSELF and wether or not I am giving their statement any validation. To a troubled young woman with her own self image issues that starves herself to nothing but skin and bones like we see in the media all to often I would be fat! If someone is saying it just to get a rise out of me, then there is NO WAY I am going to validate their comment. That is one of the most patheticly sad attacks I have seen online when they cannot think of anything else to say. I will just laugh and crack a joke about it. If it is a child saying it to me in a bikini at the beach, I would probably agree and admit I didn't belong in the bloody bikini at this age and a size 14. If it were my doctor and they were telling me that I am fat and need to lose weight for my health......then I would take it seriously, grumble, and agree. My point is that no, we cannot control how people will treat us but yes, we really can control how we will react to their treatment. How we going to let it affect us both short term and long term. I was a sexually molested child, that sucks. Guess what there are alot of people, even some that I have great respect for on this site, that I KNOW suffered much much worse. I cannot and could not do anything about what some creep did to a 11 year old girl 33 years ago but I can control how I feel about it and how I allow it to affect me. I am responsible for that. I don't know if any of that makes any sense to anyone but me but it sure beats the hell out of spending a lifetime feeling sorry for oneself and using crap we could not control as an excuse for why we continue to screw up and refuse to take responsibility for it. I can't speak for lisa but since my thoughts are different from the OP and yours seem...at least to me...to agree with the OP, let me note that I disagree and agree with you. Clear as mud? While I agree that others and their words/deeds are not responsible for my level of response to my feelings or the appropriateness of my feelings (if I feel sad when they were trying to make me happy for example), they...through their actions...are responsible for my feeling something. And I am not one of those who separates the doer from their actions. As someone else noted, one of the reasons we choose a partner is because of our perceived understanding of their awareness of their responsibility for their actions toward us. Doing something that hurts me and then saying "Well, your response to my actions are justifiable but please be aware that it was my actions and not me that created your feelings and it is your choice as to whether or not you get mad/sad/angry/happy over those actions and my commitment of those actions is YOUR choice" is not going to make me very happy.

LaTigresse -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 11:44:10 AM)
lisa I agree with you, I never meant that we should not also be responsible for what we say or do to others. It is a two sided coin. Manners and caring for others is a very important part of a civilized society. In an ideal world no one would ever do or say anything mean or hurtful. Unfortunately it is not an ideal world, all any of us have control of is how we treat others, cope with how we are treated, and sometimes more importantly allow, others to treat us.

LaTigresse -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 11:46:25 AM)
CD, I understand what you are saying and hopefully my response to lisa explained that further. I don't mean that there should be no accountability because there has to be. I was only addressing one part of the whole.

KnightofMists -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 1:33:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: genvieve In conclusion, each person is responsible for his or her own feelings, regardless of another's actions. What does it mean to be " each person responsible for his or her own feelings"? So many read this phrase and see the following "Each person is the cause for his or her own feelings"? This is likely due to the definition that we all generally apply to the word "Responsible". This word as defined immediately implies that one is to be accoutable and/or the agent or cause of something. However, when we make the above statement. Are we really stating that we are the cause of our own feelings? Or are we trying to convey a different message? Seems to me the phrase itself is also read by some as this "Each person is responsible to control his or her feelings"? I do believe that we can cause our own feelings, but I also believe that others can cause feelings within us. I do not think that anyone can logically make any argument in support of one and beable to discount the other. However, what is the effect if we allow another to be responsible to control our feelings. Also when we state "feelings" are we not also seeing "choices, actions and thoughts" in this statement? I don't believe that I am the sole the cause of my feelings. But, it is my responsiblity to control these feelings. To control doesn't mean surpress. I make a choice to direct my actions and thoughts that are motivated by my feelings. These feelings maybe internally caused or externally.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 2:06:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: genvieve In conclusion, each person is responsible for his or her own feelings, regardless of another's actions. What does it mean to be " each person responsible for his or her own feelings"? So many read this phrase and see the following "Each person is the cause for his or her own feelings"? This is likely due to the definition that we all generally apply to the word "Responsible". This word as defined immediately implies that one is to be accoutable and/or the agent or cause of something. However, when we make the above statement. Are we really stating that we are the cause of our own feelings? Or are we trying to convey a different message? Seems to me the phrase itself is also read by some as this "Each person is responsible to control his or her feelings"? I do believe that we can cause our own feelings, but I also believe that others can cause feelings within us. I do not think that anyone can logically make any argument in support of one and beable to discount the other. However, what is the effect if we allow another to be responsible to control our feelings. Also when we state "feelings" are we not also seeing "choices, actions and thoughts" in this statement? I don't believe that I am the sole the cause of my feelings. But, it is my responsiblity to control these feelings. To control doesn't mean surpress. I make a choice to direct my actions and thoughts that are motivated by my feelings. These feelings maybe internally caused or externally. (formatting added by me for emphasis). So many have responded to the OP by saying that if someone is abused and they are understandably emotionally hurt by that abuse, that they are not responsible for their feelings. However i think if those of us who have been abused in the past, would really grasp what KoM is saying here, it becomes the difference between staying a perpetual victim to those who have abused us or realizing that that person can't make us stay angry, stay hurt, stay whatever emotion we are feeling, we control that by our choice to allow those feelings (however originally justified) to continue to fester or to deal with them. Very well said KoM.

SusanofO -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 2:26:04 PM)
Yeah (to what Lady Bladewing said). Every court in the country probably recognizes this, btw. It often defines the difference between first and second-degree murder, and shapes the concepts of illegalities such as "conspiracy" and "contributory negligence". So, if one thinks it just doesn't matter, don't tell me - tell it to a judge. - Susan

juliaoceania -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 2:53:22 PM)
*In conclusion, each person is responsible for his or her own feelings, regardless of another's actions.* While I agree with this sentiment in some ways, I cannot totally subscribe to this view... I have an example to illustrate what I mean: A drunk driver hits me and damages my car, he is responsible to fix my car because he is negligent. He makes me whole through fixing my car. The same accident kills my child, he can't make me whole, he cant fix it, he broke my heart and I can sue for emotional distress in a court of law. The law acknowledges that when we hurt others with our negligence or our malice we are responsible to them. On one hand we cannot force someone to feel something, but on the other hand we can behave in such a way that our actions can have a foreseeable consequence of hurting others... yes we are responsible for the pain we cause others through our actions. Back to the car accident example... I am responsible to see to the repair of my car, I own it. Same goes with feelings... I own my feelings and I am responsible to heal my emotional states when another has harmed me. I am also responsible not to take my car on the road after an accident if I have a gas leak for example... I have the responsibity not to harm others because I am hurting too. Just because we own something does not mean that others cannot break it, harm it, or steal it... they can... same goes with feelings in my view

genvieve -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 3:08:30 PM)
Wow, what a wonderful response to this question. i'd like to thank Y/you all for your responses. Rather than respond to you individual, all address you as a whole. There seem to be 2 issues here, so let me address the main ones: 1. Many of you seem to be interpreting this as a statement that no person is responsible for his or her actions. Let me clarify, this is not what i am saying. Each person is responsible for his or her own actions. i would even go as far as to say that the person creating the action is responsible for following through and helping the person to heal, or deal with the response to those actions. What i am saying is that we choose our responses. At some point in our psychie, we decide to be happy, sad, angry, thrilled, orgasmic. Some of these are good choices, some of these are justifiable choices. But the fact remains that we all would be much happier if we, the emotional, take responsibility for our emotions. If we, the victim, decide to no longer feel victimised. If we, the lover, decide to allow our feelings to take us to being in love. If we, the angry, decide to not be ruled by our anger. Does this mean that we are at fault for our feelings? No. Fault implies wrongness and emotions are never right or wrong, they just are. 2. Justifications: There are those who have pointed out that there are many who use this arguement as a way of contradicting an arguement. "It's not my fault that you choose to be hurt because I hit you" "It's not my fault that you choose to fall in love with me." Let me be perfectly clear here. i am by no means stating that we should use this as a counter-attack on those who we have hurt through our actions. Doing so would be utterly wrong. And just as we are responsible for our emotions, we are responsible for where we allow our emotions to take us. There have been several examples given to support this, so i will not address it again. Mostly, i believe W/we are all arguing over semantics. It seems that we all believe that we should to the right thing, that we should take responsiblity for our actions, and that some people have every right to feel the way that they feel. But the bottom line is, we choose to feel that way. Some of those choices are due to preconditioning, others are hard-wired into us. But we can choose to respond differently. We can move forward and just not care any more. Or we can move forward and embrace our emotions. Regardless, it is our choice. -genvieve

SusanofO -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 3:11:04 PM)
Yes, I do agree with you there, genvieve. - Ssusan.

juliaoceania -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 3:24:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: genvieve Mostly, i believe W/we are all arguing over semantics. It seems that we all believe that we should to the right thing, that we should take responsiblity for our actions, and that some people have every right to feel the way that they feel. But the bottom line is, we choose to feel that way. Some of those choices are due to preconditioning, others are hard-wired into us. But we can choose to respond differently. We can move forward and just not care any more. Or we can move forward and embrace our emotions. Regardless, it is our choice. -genvieve I do not agree with that, feelings are responses to stimuli. If someone cheats on me (for example) and I find out about it and I feel as though the Earth has given way, I can no longer feel my feet, and I want to throw up... No I do not choose that... it is a response to stimuli that caused this reaction. What I do about it is the choice... see the difference?

genvieve -> RE: Feelings and Responsibility (6/27/2006 3:31:59 PM)
If that were true, julia, there would be no personal growth ever. W/we would all be in grade school and being hurt every time we didn't get our way. you may respond by feeling hurt to certain stimuli, and you may be justified in your feeling, but it was your choice to feel it. Sometimes, we can choose to move on from our feelings, and sometimes we can choose to acknowledge them as valid, and hold onto them.

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