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RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 12:23:13 AM

LafayetteLady

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From: Northern New Jersey
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California currently does have the death penalty, although they have stayed all executions until further notice. There are questions with their lethal injection protocol. They do have the gas chamber, but none of the death row inmates have opted to "complete" their sentence that way. Before you say anything, yes, I agree they shouldn't be able to choose how their sentence is carried out.

Receiving the death penalty for rape must have several enhancements. As an accessory, it would never meet the criteria.

There is a set of criteria in each state that must be met for the prosecution to request the death penalty. It is a very strict standard with a high degree of evidence. These cases you hear about being turned over are NOT recent. They are older where various types of evidence were not available, most specifically DNA.

So while I understand your view point, from a legal standpoint, I don't think they would meet the criteria for death penalty.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 41

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 12:36:07 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

California currently does have the death penalty, although they have stayed all executions until further notice. There are questions with their lethal injection protocol. They do have the gas chamber, but none of the death row inmates have opted to "complete" their sentence that way. Before you say anything, yes, I agree they shouldn't be able to choose how their sentence is carried out.

Receiving the death penalty for rape must have several enhancements. As an accessory, it would never meet the criteria.

There is a set of criteria in each state that must be met for the prosecution to request the death penalty. It is a very strict standard with a high degree of evidence. These cases you hear about being turned over are NOT recent. They are older where various types of evidence were not available, most specifically DNA.

So while I understand your view point, from a legal standpoint, I don't think they would meet the criteria for death penalty.

Who cares about the legal view, the guys that committed the crime are animals, and the people that watched the crime was no better. As I said, I am sick of hearing about the rights of the criminals.

Since the courts are powerless to actually punish these individuals in a way that is actually justice, and I doubt if these individuals will be put in gen pop, although I wish they would be put there, and then I would hope that karma would hit these people with the force of an asteroid the size of mars.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 6/8/2013 12:38:33 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 42

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 2:22:11 PM

truckinslave

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I certainly do not disagree with the specifics of your post.

In the aggregate, however, two parent households are definitely superior, by both(un)common sense and sociological studies; yet we as a society refuse to admit that. We refuse to admit that any one thing is just flat-out, morally and/or experientially, better tahn any permutation (or perversion) of that thing.

So, yes, far too many of us and of our children have the moral compasses of hungry, wounded wolves.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 43

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 2:28:29 PM

truckinslave

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quote:

I doubt if these individuals will be put in gen pop

I wonder if they would be rock stars in gen pop. Might depend on the prison, on the gang; but I don't think rapists are the same as child molesters.
And, ftm, i am not sure that the old story of child molesters being reviled in prison is accurate.
Our world is sick; theirs much more so

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 44

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 2:46:32 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I certainly do not disagree with the specifics of your post.

In the aggregate, however, two parent households are definitely superior, by both(un)common sense and sociological studies; yet we as a society refuse to admit that. We refuse to admit that any one thing is just flat-out, morally and/or experientially, better tahn any permutation (or perversion) of that thing.

So, yes, far too many of us and of our children have the moral compasses of hungry, wounded wolves.

Lyle and Erik Menendez

As far as the other... Im not surprised you would agree to leaving an abusive man in a home with the children he is abusing... after all... they need a 2 parent home!

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 45

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 2:48:15 PM

muhly22222

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Joined: 3/25/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

How can it be that those kids can't be subpoenaed for their testimonies, deal or no deal?

When the death penalty is off the table, and solitary confinement is unconstitutional.... what, exactly, are you going to do to them if they don't testify?

They can't be subpoenaed because to do so would have violated their Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination. Even now, there's an argument that they could be forced to reveal other criminal acts to which jeopardy has not attached, so they could incriminate themselves, barring immunity from the prosecution.

If the plea agreement contained an agreement from the offenders that they would testify against their co-defendants, and they later back out, the court will vacate the plea and the sentence and allow the prosecutors to seek higher penalties. Think of it like a contract...the offender failed to live up to their side of the contract, so they don't get the benefits of the agreement, either.

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I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.
-Woodrow Wilson

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 46

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 5:21:09 PM

jlf1961

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Okay, the people that watched this happen are no better than the ones that committed the crime, therefore they are less than human, hence they are not entitled to HUMAN rights. Simple.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to muhly22222)

Post #: 47

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 5:30:04 PM

Wendel27

Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
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While this crime is abominable in the extreme I think it is a serious error to attribute generational differences to the manner in which this gang rape was carried out. I accept that there's a technological aspect that gives a particuarly reprehensible twist of the knife but the underlying motivations [and actions] are timeless. There are crimes in every year of every decade that people look at and think...not in my day. It's very rarely the case.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 48

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 5:36:20 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
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Still does not change the fact that every one involved are animals, the watchers included. I would also advocate the death penalty for people who have dogs fight to the death.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Wendel27)

Post #: 49

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 5:40:22 PM

Wendel27

Posts: 162
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It doesn't change the nature of the behaviour of the perpetrators in any manner at all JLF. I had hoped i'd made that clear in my post.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 50

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 6:03:02 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222
Don't judge a defense attorney by his arguments on behalf of a client. We sometimes have to do terrible things because we have an ethical duty to our clients. While the case here in Ohio was going on, I was talking about it with somebody from CM, and I said that if I was defending an accused rapist, and the facts were such that "blame the victim" was an argument that might get some play with the jury, I would do it...then I'd go home and cry about having done it. I'd probably write a letter to the victim apologizing after everything was done, too.

Yet... some people would not select a career which required such heinous things of them... not wanting to be heinous and all. Nope, I'm judging thank you.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to muhly22222)

Post #: 51

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 6:39:50 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
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Now someone tell me again, why the people who were identified as watching the crime be committed cannot be charged? Sorry, but most juries take the very act of pleading the fifth as an indication of guilt.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 52

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 6:41:38 PM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Each state has their mandatory reporters... those who HAVE to report. The rest do not.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 53

RE: California rape case begins - 6/8/2013 7:12:55 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222

quote:

I have issues with the defense attorney's "beliefs" about how his client's dna ended up on a used condom found at the scene. But, its an attempt at a defense.

Don't judge a defense attorney by his arguments on behalf of a client. We sometimes have to do terrible things because we have an ethical duty to our clients. While the case here in Ohio was going on, I was talking about it with somebody from CM, and I said that if I was defending an accused rapist, and the facts were such that "blame the victim" was an argument that might get some play with the jury, I would do it...then I'd go home and cry about having done it. I'd probably write a letter to the victim apologizing after everything was done, too.

Doesn't a defense lawyer have the right to decline a case?

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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(in reply to muhly22222)

Post #: 54

RE: California rape case begins - 6/9/2013 6:57:57 PM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
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'Heinous' like all those attorneys who have overturned wrongful convictions?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222
Don't judge a defense attorney by his arguments on behalf of a client. We sometimes have to do terrible things because we have an ethical duty to our clients. While the case here in Ohio was going on, I was talking about it with somebody from CM, and I said that if I was defending an accused rapist, and the facts were such that "blame the victim" was an argument that might get some play with the jury, I would do it...then I'd go home and cry about having done it. I'd probably write a letter to the victim apologizing after everything was done, too.

Yet... some people would not select a career which required such heinous things of them... not wanting to be heinous and all. Nope, I'm judging thank you.

_____________________________

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" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 55

RE: California rape case begins - 6/9/2013 8:01:26 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We arent teaching them personal responsibility. We have taught them that they dont have to respect law or rules.

Tazzy isn't that one hell of a generalization.....I have a son,I know he was taught to not only respect law and rules...he was also taught to respect others,especially the woman in his life !!!!!!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 56

RE: California rape case begins - 6/9/2013 8:11:06 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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And how rare is that, mike. Be honest.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 57

RE: California rape case begins - 6/9/2013 8:19:12 PM

slvemike4u

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From: United States
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Tazzy I always try to be honest...and it really isn't that rare.
Every generation has decried the following generation since ancient Greece...I'm sure our children will wonder where they went wrong with the next generation.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 58

RE: California rape case begins - 6/9/2013 8:24:49 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Of course they have... lol... and each one has gotten worse.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 59

RE: California rape case begins - 6/9/2013 8:28:02 PM

Just0Us0Two

Posts: 135
Joined: 6/3/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Picture takers and gawkers should be rewarded with harsh sentences.

Agreed. All the onlookers should be charged with accessory to the crime, and do some prison time.

The problem is, it's not against the law to ignore something bad happening. A private citizen has no legal obligation to intervene. Actually, considering how litigious society has become, often all intervening gets you is sued. Or you run the risk or the pack turning on you.

(in reply to graceadieu)

Post #: 60

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