MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (Full Version)

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papassion -> MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 10:29:10 AM)

The AP has a story by Dina Cappiello How the Obama Administration has charged oil companies for drowning birds in their waste pits and power companies for electrocuting birds on power lines, fining these companies tens of millions of dollars.

But the administration has NEVER fined or PROSECUTED a wind energy company, even those that flout the law repeatedly. More than 573,000 birds are killed EACH YEAR by the wind farms, including hawks, falcons and eagles!

Tim Eicher, former US Fish and Wildlife agent said an AP investigation revealed the Obama Administration has shielded the the wind power industry from liability and helped keep the scope of the deaths secret.

Windmills, that's one of the Liberal's great ideas, right? Obama can't have anything bad about Liberals getting out! More of Obama using government agencies ILLEGALLY to bully his agenda!

Wait! The AP investigates the Obama Administration for selective prosecution and then the AP gets their phone lines tapped! Geez, what a coincidence!



Moonhead -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 10:35:29 AM)

If the vast death toll of birds flying into wind farms is being hushed up by the EVIL LIBERAL CONSPIRACY where did you get the figure of 573,000 per year from? Wouldn't that be all, you know, hidden?



DesideriScuri -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 11:06:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
The AP has a story by Dina Cappiello How the Obama Administration has charged oil companies for drowning birds in their waste pits and power companies for electrocuting birds on power lines, fining these companies tens of millions of dollars.
But the administration has NEVER fined or PROSECUTED a wind energy company, even those that flout the law repeatedly. More than 573,000 birds are killed EACH YEAR by the wind farms, including hawks, falcons and eagles!
Tim Eicher, former US Fish and Wildlife agent said an AP investigation revealed the Obama Administration has shielded the the wind power industry from liability and helped keep the scope of the deaths secret.
Windmills, that's one of the Liberal's great ideas, right? Obama can't have anything bad about Liberals getting out! More of Obama using government agencies ILLEGALLY to bully his agenda!
Wait! The AP investigates the Obama Administration for selective prosecution and then the AP gets their phone lines tapped! Geez, what a coincidence!


No link?

You do know that all public power generators drive their power onto the grid, right? So, if a wind farm generates power, it puts it out onto the same grid that the icky ([8D]) coal plants put their power on. I think there needs to be some more background into this before it can be determined to be a story or not.



DomKen -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 11:14:49 AM)

Actually anyone well informed on large scale wind farms knows that bird kills happen and that it is a major concern of environmentalists, who want to burn less carbon but also want live birds.

As a matter of fact the US Fish and Wildlife Service just published new guidelines for wind farms to avoid killing eagles or other protected birds.

BTW as near as I can tell the actual rates of kills of protected birds by wind turbines is miniscule, less than 2 percent of all human caused deaths of eagles in the US for instance. It appears that more eagles die from being hit by cars than die near wind turbines.



joether -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 11:17:33 AM)

Its a number that is used so often that the majority of people that speak it have no clue to where the information originates. Its like when talking about immigration, how 1:6 will register to vote as a Republican while 5:6 will become Democrats if they gain citizenship? Yeah, that come out from a study that had....a few....major flaws to the research. But conservatives will spew the crap while pushing for as much a Nazi state as possible. There are several examples in the gun debate that often rages on this an other forums. Numbers and concepts are thrown about like a massive snowball fight. But the majority of persons pushing the numbers are like religious fanatics; they don't care what or where the information comes from, just that it sounds like it would support their cause.

Now, its often been observed that ANYTHING that....MIGHT....make President Obama look bad is instantly pushed by every ring-wing nut media in the country as often as possible. Regardless if the information is true or not. Accurate or not. Reliable or not. I sort of made a forum post about this a few days ago. Anyways, doing a little research to find a NON-right-wing nut site were I might find some unbiased information, I find this Little Nugget. Go click on the link for the AP story there. People that push this crap do not care where the information originates from as long as it supports their narrow viewpoint on life, liberty and the pursuit of justice!

So where exactly does this 'scientific' number come from? The grand majority of sites on the web have no ability to explain this. They are simply parroting the information from somewhere else without an ounce of thought or consideration. That's why we have JOURNALISTS, that check the information and the details of it. Usually stating where the information comes from, who gained this information and (in this case) how it was obtained. If this is an actual study from a credible institution of science, the question might be "Are there previous studies on this concept or is this the first comprehensive study performed?"

I do find it funny that conservatives are pushing a story like this, since 'environmental issues' are usually a liberal viewpoint. If conservatives REALLY gave a crap about the environment, why do they keep voting people into office that want to tear down the EPA? The writer of the AP story, Dina Cappiello does have quite a resume in environmental issues. Heck, she has appeared on PBS and NPR, which last I checked are things conservatives want removed from funding.

Now while I might find Miss Cappiello's information interesting to read, I would like to read the background notes that were used to form this AP story. Its to bad that in a rush to slam the President, papassion could not do any homework and give us a link to this suppose study....




OneOldSoul -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 11:18:44 AM)

Did you even read the whole article? It goes on to state that there is currently a proposed rule under review regarding permits to kill eagles. Currently the permits last 5 years, the proposed change under review would stretch each permit to 30 years. Now that's a tragedy.

I am also curious as to how you relate an eagle flying headfirst into a windmill with migratory birds drowning in oil. There is no relation between the two.

Also if you would care to examine some thing called facts, you would find that Wind farms have been around since the Bush error.

Be careful who you let do your thinking for you. Just because its in print does not make it true.

Oh and just to add to the controversy; I thought that global warming had been dismissed as an idea when it came out that the U.S.S.R. had been engaging in what they termed a weather war. They were deliberately venting excess hot gasses into the atmosphere to change weather patterns in an attempt to make Siberia fertile farmland.
Did it work? Maybe maybe not. But wasn't there just a snowstorm in the Midwest a week ago? Snow in summer is becoming more prevalent.



Politesub53 -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 2:07:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

If the vast death toll of birds flying into wind farms is being hushed up by the EVIL LIBERAL CONSPIRACY where did you get the figure of 573,000 per year from? Wouldn't that be all, you know, hidden?


A little bird told him.......... Obvious innit.



dcnovice -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 2:25:18 PM)

quote:

Windmills, that's one of the Liberal's great ideas, right? Obama can't have anything bad about Liberals getting out! More of Obama using government agencies ILLEGALLY to bully his agenda!

Wait! The AP investigates the Obama Administration for selective prosecution and then the AP gets their phone lines tapped! Geez, what a coincidence!

Up till this point, the opening message actually sounded sane and even interesting.



dcnovice -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 2:29:16 PM)

quote:

If the vast death toll of birds flying into wind farms is being hushed up by the EVIL LIBERAL CONSPIRACY where did you get the figure of 573,000 per year from?

That comes from the AP article, which cites "an estimate published in March in the peer-reviewed Wildlife Society Bulletin."

And here, btw, is the AP story:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/20100141-418/story.html



Moonhead -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 4:37:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

If the vast death toll of birds flying into wind farms is being hushed up by the EVIL LIBERAL CONSPIRACY where did you get the figure of 573,000 per year from? Wouldn't that be all, you know, hidden?


A little bird told him.......... Obvious innit.


A hit, a very palpable hit!



Phydeaux -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 4:38:21 PM)

Here is a link to the USA today report. http://www.usatoday.com/media/cinematic/video/2157559/

Anyone that has a brain knows these bird kills are happening. Hunters (and oil companies) routinely pay fines of up to 100K per bird. Green power companies - not so much.

Also: latest out from NASA says that we may be facing a Maunder minimum - which means global cooling - the likes of which makes the global warming scare seem like a walk in the park. The last time this happened, the Norse settlements were wiped out in Greenland (ice covered) and London had annual frost faires. Thousands of studies, by this point, have pointed out that global warming is a hoax.

Some highlights - a cern report said that temperature variation was explained by ionized particles from solar activity. Danish researchers found the same. The lead reviewer for the IPCCC found that the science behind latest climate predictions were junk. Even mann's group admitted that their 'models' couldn't explain why there hasn't been global warming in 16 years. (his words, not mine).

There's no shame in being duped; the shame is clinging to ignorance without at least looking at the information on the other side.



DomKen -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 4:45:34 PM)

No studies show that global warming is a hoax, you simply lied.

As to a possible maunder type minimum, if it does occur, and that is far from certain, it would result in less solar UV output which would serve to mitigate the effects of global warming. Continue pumping CO2 into the atmosphere beyond the environments ability to remove it and the catastrophe is inevitable. Consider what would happen to our descendants in 2 or 3 hundred years if we do go into a maunder minimum. CO2 could be 600 or 700 ppm or even higher and the solar UV output returns to normal. There would be nothing they could do to remove that much CO2 in any sort of reasonable time frame and the temp rise would be ever faster and higher than we are experiencing now.



dcnovice -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 5:22:09 PM)

quote:

The lead reviewer for the IPCCC found that the science behind latest climate predictions were junk.

That would be interesting to read. Can you share a link?



TheHeretic -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 6:55:07 PM)

Wind farms have been around longer than since Bush. There is a road into the mountains not far from here, very pretty in the springtime (when we get one), where you can drive past the full evolution of modern windmill technology, with one small farm that went up during the Carter administration.

They've gone from framework supports to giant pylons, the turbines and blades get bigger and bigger, and the things consistently break down a lot. A friend has worked up there for years, and he says that that the bigger the windmills get, the more dead birds they find on the ground. I have no idea where the number in the OP might have come from, but yeah, endangered and protected species are among the carcasses they find.



dcnovice -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 6:57:17 PM)

FR

The article brings to mind my sad and long-held belief that there's no totally good way to generate power.



TheHeretic -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 7:14:08 PM)

Here is a news story from last year on the subject

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/16/local/la-me-eagles-20120216

Of course, this is about the number of birds found. How many more the coyotes carry off is an unknown.



Powergamz1 -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 7:20:49 PM)

Apparently there are a lot of bird deaths on the wind farms, I don't know if there is a simple fix that someone is refusing to implement, or if some vested interest group is calling for the shutting down of all alternative sources of energy.

I did notice that bird strikes on airplanes are far smaller in number, but have a much greater impact on the aero industry.



Hillwilliam -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/4/2013 7:27:19 PM)

Regarding the OP.

Why is it that those who consider Obama to be inept as a leader claim that he is directly responsible for everything in government?

By definition, if he is micromanaging everything the way his detractors claim, then he is leading. (maybe the wrong way but leading nonetheless)
Seriously folks. The guy couldn't lead a fucking cat to a can of tuna fish yet everything bad that happens is "absolutely a direct result of his conscious actions and decisions."
Can you see just how stupid that sounds?

Oh and I forgot. He is only directly responsible for the bad things that happen. NONE of the good things are a result of his actions.[8|]



papassion -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/5/2013 10:34:38 AM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Regarding the OP.

Why is it that those who consider Obama to be inept as a leader claim that he is directly responsible for everything in government?

By definition, if he is micromanaging everything the way his detractors claim, then he is leading. (maybe the wrong way but leading nonetheless)
Seriously folks. The guy couldn't lead a fucking cat to a can of tuna fish yet everything bad that happens is "absolutely a direct result of his conscious actions and decisions."
Can you see just how stupid that sounds?

Oh and I forgot. He is only directly responsible for the bad things that happen. NONE of the good things are a result of his actions.[8|]


Whenever Obama does something good that is directly the result of his "leadership," I'll be impressed. The incompetent ass said, " I just learned about it in the papers this morning." Can you imagine a company CEO addressing his stockholders with that same line? Someone might ask, "what the fuck are we paying you for?" Doesn't Obama have a highly PAID staff of advisors? With the hearings, we now know NOBODY in the Obama administration knows ANYTHING about what goes on in the Obama administration! INCLUDING Obama!

Every day it becomes more obvious, the emperor has no clothes.



mnottertail -> RE: MORE OBAMA'S SELECTIVE PROSECUTION (6/5/2013 10:40:39 AM)

Uh, CEOs are always saying we didnt know.



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