Simple Versus Complex Demands (Full Version)

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genvieve -> Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 1:18:42 PM)

Ok, i'm not really sure how to put this, but i'll certainly make an attempt to put it just right.
 
i have recently been informed that in my submission, i am a big picture submissive.  Meaning that i am perfectly happy making the grand gestures, giving my all on the huge things...but when it comes to the little things, like reading collar me every day... i'm not always great about it.
 
i've racked my brain and i actually consider myself to be a very dedicated submissive, but i have to wonder... is there something going on here?  Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?
 
i wonder:
 
Do any other submissives find that they have this same problem?
 
Do any other Dominants find submissives who have a tendency do to the same thing?
 
And why?
 
i'll be interested to see Y/your replies and will try my very best to take none of it personally.
 
-genvieve



LadiesBladewing -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 1:28:27 PM)

Every submissive individual expresses his or her submission on hir own in different ways. I think what you are hearing here is that the dominant who is managing you wants you to be more detail oriented and to focus on things that may not have such huge "payoffs" or may be more tedious. Apparently s/he seems to feel that you are focusing on the big, noticeable stuff, but ignoring the smaller, less noticeable things.

Whether or not you feel that you are dedicated, if the dominant managing you is not happy with the level of your dedication, -that- is a sign you need to re-evaluate according to your dominant individual's concepts of how you should be providing service, or, if you find you can't do that, consider that you may not be in the right D/s relationship for you.

ZWD



Caretakr -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 1:37:40 PM)

Firstly, I would like to thank you for not being ego centric in your viewing of this. It does you great credit, in that so many others must think the world revolves around them. Very adult of you.

We all make mistakes, and forget things. This is one reason that so many of us enjoy using scheduling and routines to organize our day to day lives. I have dealt with past girls who had impairments such as ADHD......So my writing things down and making checklists up, was of great value to thier comfort and efficiency......they did not have to wonder what to do first..And could simply move down the list..Feeling better and better, as they sucessfully accomplished that which was needed of them.

When you care about a person,and want them to be happy and fullfilled in thier service to you-structure, and the ability to conform competently is of great importance. Many speak of the gift of submission,whether or no that is correct.

But the gift of Dominance to submission is often one of building the house in which the submissive then resides......and the Dominant can build that of straw,or of stone.

It depends entirely upon the priorities he or she sets.



enigmabrat -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 1:40:32 PM)

Sorry IM rather confused about what she is saying



DivaZya -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 1:46:57 PM)

    Never thought of Myself as a 'big picture' Domina - but often I just can't be bothered to assign the teeny weenie details - although I DO get very specific on many issues that I try to cover as soon as they arise.
    I don't feel that I should have to go over the simple things over and over - to Me this means that the submissive does not want to please Me or is looking for a way to gain negative attention. Either of which will do no good since I make it clear upfront that I will not abide a sam or brat.  (it's fine for My submissives to be bratty and I enjoy fiesty, but not Mainly that)
   I don't want those that come to Me to believe they must grovel and be "all submissive like" all the time.  Makes for burn-out and it's unrealistic.. to have to be 'on' every moment you are with someone! 



feastie -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 1:54:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

Ok, i'm not really sure how to put this, but i'll certainly make an attempt to put it just right.
 
i have recently been informed that in my submission, i am a big picture submissive.  Meaning that i am perfectly happy making the grand gestures, giving my all on the huge things...but when it comes to the little things, like reading collar me every day... i'm not always great about it.
 
i've racked my brain and i actually consider myself to be a very dedicated submissive, but i have to wonder... is there something going on here?  Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?
 
i wonder:
 
Do any other submissives find that they have this same problem?
 
Do any other Dominants find submissives who have a tendency do to the same thing?
 
And why?
 
i'll be interested to see Y/your replies and will try my very best to take none of it personally.
 
-genvieve


Have you been told that you're to read collarme everyday?  If so, and you're not, then why not?

Are there lots of little things that you've been specifically requested to do, and you leave them undone? 




reticence -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 2:09:35 PM)

I , too, tend to be a big picture person, always having faith that the minutae will take care of itself.  This has gotten me in trouble.  I find I have to be ever mindful of the details, almost to the point of micro-stepping myself through a day.  It is a matter of self-discipline, really, and making a point of being in the moment. 

The big picture is really just a whole collection of little pictures, of which we need to take care.



trippingdaisy -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 2:29:21 PM)

Very interesting question.

i do tend to accidentally forget the little things, but that has a lot to do with my memory lacking, not my dedication.

Is it that you find yourself forgetting? Or that you simply don't want to do the little things? If you're like me, and you simply forget, try making a list to follow daily. Perhaps have the list written for you until you're confident you can remember what you need to do yourself. Either way, i know it helps me a great deal. :)

Good luck!



LordDominik -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 2:35:26 PM)

Well, in My experiance every slave I have had that has been asked to keep a jopurnal, has never done a good job of keeping up with it, so I imagine that everyone has a problem like that, Dom and sub alike.  I would say that this is one of those little things that juat makes us all individuals.
 
~ LD



Sensualips -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 2:36:55 PM)

For me this has little to do with submission.  I am a "big picture" person and it is most noticeable in the work environment.  I am great at strategic planning, overall grant writing, brainstorming  solutions, developing projects, etc.  However I am dreadful when it comes to the small, everyday things needed to implement these grand plans successfully. It works out great if I am partnered with a detail oriented, organized person.

This becomes obvious in my personal life as well.



krikket -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 2:46:31 PM)

i tended to be just the opposite.  i loved doing the small things, doing things that can easily be overlooked.  This can also present a problem, especially if your partner isn't the kind to notice to small things you do for them.  Being a submissive isn't easy, especially if, in the early days, expectations (yours and theirs) aren't discussed, with examples given if need be.  As with most aspects of any relationship, communication in the key.  It also might help you to make a list of to-do thing, big and small, that you can/should do, they want/expect you to do. This can help later on if differences arise about what those expectations are.  Everyone is different..what you see as a small act, your partner might see only as the "big picture" kinda thing.

i do wish you luck...

cheers
jimini



KatyLied -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 2:46:44 PM)

Just as some doms are micromanagers and some submissives crave that, I believe that others could be described as "big picture" and I'd put myself in there. However, there are some tasks such as journaling that I have to do every day, and in such cases there is good reason for it.

It is possible that you don't see how such tasks fit into the big picture, so it could help to have that clarified for you. Perhaps you're just a space cadet and forget, in which case you should find ways not to forget the "little" stuff. But it is also possible that there is a mismatch of micromanager with big picture person -- you'll have to figure out if that is the case for yourself.



elsie -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 3:12:04 PM)

I guess you could say i'm mainly a big picture person, but i do my very best to pay attention to details as this is something Mistress is very adament (ok so i can't spell) about, paying attention and details.

I don't HAVE to do journals or read certain forums but there are other things that i must do, like when shopping for clothes, i must keep my "uniform" guidelines in mind, other than work clothes, my wardrobe is fairly specific.

Mistress knows i need structure in my life, more that i've had in the past, she has taken all the control that i am comfortable giving her and continue to give her more and more.

Some Doms just like giving little minial tasks to occupy their subs time, (and yes i speak from experience here), because they aren't really interested in the results, only if it was done.  Testing the submissive, if you will.

I would do anything Mistress asked of me, or at least attempt to, because that is the control i have given her over me.

respectfully,
elsie



IronBear -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 4:01:17 PM)

Sounds to me lass that you re ok with all the larger things but may be a tad forgetfull and smaller and possibly routibne or mundane things slip unter the radar.. You are not alone if this. In this case, some need a little more micromanagement. Were your Master I'd have you reading Standing Orders every day and have a list of daily things to do posted on a board for you to mark when done..... Not a bad way to get new habbits.... Sounds like you are a damned good sub.. 



Noah -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 6:15:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

  Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?


Hi genvieve,

When presented with an issue that makes me think I have tried to discipline myself to make sure that some of the earliest thinking is in an attempt to clear the decks, to get the clearest view I can of just what is is that needs thinking about.

Inserting layers of theorizing and labeling when the option exists to operate directly on the matters at hand often doesn't help. The term "big picture sub" was probably useful at that point in the conversation to get an impression across efficiently. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if he is not terribly invested in the label or the theoretical category it might stand for. I wouldn't be surprised if his concerns are fairly specific and can be dealt with effectively, and in a mutually rewarding way, irrespective of who fits into what category.

Is it possible that he would be better pleased to eventually learn that you decided to spend less time figuring out where someone like you fits in some conceptual scheme of submissive "types," and more time trying to tune into your instincts and fine-tune them in the directions which will please him best?

Labels aren't inherently evil. They make organizing the pantry a lot easier, for instance. Sometimes they can really help us express and sort our thoughts on trickier matters like the one you're facing, too. I guess I'm just asking if you'd like to place less emphasis on the label/category issue and more on the thing in itself.

"What sort of person am I, really?" is one kind of question.

"What should I do" is a simpler one and it just might do the trick here.








catize -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 6:43:47 PM)

I believe it is best to view all commands the same; one does not carry more 'weight' than another. 
A topic often discussed in BDSM forums is the need for the dominant to be a trustworthy person.  I believe it goes both ways.  A dominant needs to trust the submissive.  If, as a submissive, I do not carry out all my Master's orders, how can he trust me?
An example from this weekend.  I was blindfolded and Master told me to lie perfectly still; a pretty  'simple' command.  He engaged in  knife play using a very sharp knife.  Since I could not see, if I used the premise that 'simple' commands are not as important, I might have chosen to wiggle around.  He needed to trust that I would obey him in order to keep the play safe.
I would suggest that if an order is within the parameters of what has been agreed upon, then all commands are simply obeyed. 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 9:29:58 PM)

quote:

Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?

i wonder:

Do any other submissives find that they have this same problem?

Do any other Dominants find submissives who have a tendency do to the same thing?

And why?

i'll be interested to see Y/your replies and will try my very best to take none of it personally.

-genvieve

YOu will always be less than "perfect."

However, what you define as "big" is not what someone else defines as "big" so they can't really use those terms to define yourself.

We all have different styles- it doesn't make you less submissive, it just makes you who you are.  I'm not into rituals at all- I don't need to have a set defined rules of order thing just to get my ass out the door and get stuff done.  Some people however LOVE rituals and like being micromanaged.

Figure out what style you work best with and then get with that person.  If you work well with someone, they can train you to change your focus somewhat and be able to work through macro or micro management whatever they want- but you shouldn't doubt yourself just because your style of submission doesn't fit with everyones style of dominance.



classykindasassy -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 10:29:44 PM)

What ridiculousness says that you gotta read this stuff every day to make you a complete submissive??? What a crock!

What matters is your LIFE. your SERVICE. WHO is defining whoYOU are???

You have to know yourself and your gifts and talents, and your "flaws" and have a dom for whom that is a fit. A dom should empower their sub to do valid things to improve themselves in their own personal contribution in life.

i don't see what relevance is of your not wasting hours with all the rants and mostly useless stuff on here. If I was a dom I'd consider that some valid activity spent in real life, in service, in love, and taking care of yourself, would be better spent.

If I had someone that based my value or defined my specturm as a sub on how much time i spent engaging in this stuff, I would not be letting the screen door hit my ass on the way out.



genvieve -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/25/2006 10:46:37 PM)

Thank you all for your various inputs and since the general consensus seems to be the same, i hope Y/ya'll won't mind if i adress the major points in one post rather than going through and quoting each and every one of you.
 
- Some have asked me to be more specific with the "little tasks" that i'm asked to do.  Well, aside from calling Him every morning and every evening before bed, my Dominant isn't much into micromanagement.  i think this may be where i have a bit of a problem.  Mind you, this is in no way a criticism of His Dominance but rather...since He asks me to do so very little, it is possible that i have issues with remembering them.  ie, since they are so infrequent, they are not habitual and thus aren't easily remembered.

One of the recent things He has asked me to do was to read collar me every day.  Well, more specifically, He has asked me to read His posts on collar me so that W/we may discuss the events happening on the board.   W/we find it an excellent way to communicate how W/we feel about things and gets a lot of "negotiations" out of the way without ruining potential scenes or issues.
 
Not an unreasonable request, as far as i can see.  Thus, i have no issues with doing so.  None whatsoever.  i have agreed to consent to this issue. 
 
But when it comes down to the brass tax of things, my computer has problems, i have to see my doctor, i forget, my dog ate my homework.  Most of my rationalizations are valid ones.  i am a busy woman with a lot of outside forces "keeping me down."  But what makes me wonder here is if EVERY explanation is a rational one, are they really rational?  If 3 times out of 10 something "legitimate" happens, is it really that legitimate?  Or am i just not prioritizing my life correctly?
 
Do you see where i'm getting at?
 
-Labels:  Perhaps, i should be specific.  The term "big picture submissive" was not actually used by my Dominant.  This was, however a way of summing up what He has stressed to me before.  He is in no way second guessing my submission.  What He is, however doing, is causing me to think.
 
Ok, so the basic answer to Y/your questions is that.  A very specific example is him asking me to read collar me.  Why does it not happen every day?  Honestly?  i'm busy.  i forget.  my computer has troubles.  i'm tired.  They day slips away and then i have something else to do.  Basically, that's it.  And in the grand scheme of things...between these things and giving my Dominant what He needs... i would 10 times rather give Him what He needs.
 
But if i say it... and it still doesn't happen... then what?
 
i'll stop my diatribe.  Thank Y/you for your responses.  i'll be checking back.
 
-genvieve



Sirandlittle1 -> RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands (6/26/2006 1:17:40 AM)

I can understand the 'big picture submissive' title. Im one myself. In fact, that whole micromanagement is hard for me to bare. I particularly sought someone who's not into that side of things. It'd drive me bloody nuts!
If you Dom asks you to read collarme everyday to follow his threads for later discussion. Id see that as a request. Youve not completed the request. Now what? what are the consequences for you. Does the 'time' equate nicely to the 'crime'?
What are the consequences of doing this right?
Personally, im a 'high maintenance' submissive. The level of re-inforcement i require is huge. Unless im getting my needs met, i start to wander off track. That's the way i am. So because i know this of myself, i realise that on line, or via the phone, is not going to be enough to sustain my subbie feelings to someone past the play partner scenario. . i need right here, right now, living with me, constant access stuff. to take my submission out of the bedroom, but more importantly, keep it there.
House guests upset this in our relationship badly. I dont enjoy them. I dont enjoy being denied my special life that i require to make me fulfilled. By day 3, of no D/s stuff and im not talking just play here, im tetchy, irratable, out of sorts, and desparately need time alone with him. Im not less of a submissive coz im so high maintenance, im just me. And your just you.

Think about what He does to motivate you. Ask for his assistance with motivation.

If being told to do something, from a guy on the end of a phone doesnt do it for you, then perhaps you need a little extra help. From both yourself, by trying to address this within yourself, and from him to step up to the mark. Maybe neither of you are that motivated?

As for some are born submissive comment in this thread, well, i guess its possible. But not everyone's truth. Some of us are learning. Some have better teachers than others. Some have too many other things prioritised in their lives to be submissive in every waking moment.

If you're prioritising going to sleep for instance because your really tired. Why doesnt he know that? why couldnt you ask for a night off reading so that you can go to bed. You can get out of requests from your Dom. Dom's commands arent allways set in stone, and those that are, generally, are communicated as such. A legitamate need for sleep over pc reading time, is a reasonable request from a human to a human id say. A repeated excuse is something else though.

little1



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