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Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean Left - 5/26/2013 7:50:31 AM   
Owner59


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http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/26/gallup-poll-and-new-study-reveal-americas-growing-love-for-liberal-views/


This is what I`ve been saying.....the whole thing is moving left.....


This is a slippery slope no conservative can avoid.....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/26/2013 7:51:18 AM >


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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 8:28:26 AM   
njlauren


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I don't know if the country is moving left, as much as what has been defined as leftist has changed. Conservatism has gone so far to the right, between the religious right/social conservatives and the economic extremism of the tea party, that what was once considered centrist or moderate is now considered liberal. The GOP was once defined as being the party of fiscal conservatism and socially moderate to libertarian views, and it turned into the party of Jesus (somehow, I don't see the GOP of the 70's ever putting forth an amendment to the constitution barring same sex marriage), and the party of today has been pushed into the land of the John Birch Society (Koch Brothers, classic example, their Papa founded it).

I think the extremism of the gun lobby is making people politically active, who aren't anti gun but are tired of even simple measures being blocked (and realizing that the NRA line, that 'existing laws' need to be enforced, is a chimera, because existing laws they think exist don't), I know that based on polls most people, other then older people and people from rural areas, don't care about same sex marriage, don't want the United Jesus states of America, and want a country that actually does something. The 'lets cut spending and taxes' is appealing to fewer people, as they realize what it means, and they are tired of the no compromise, I am right, this is the way to go politicians that make up so called conservatives today.

Very simply, most people in this country recognize I think that government while it has its faults, also has a key role to play in things, and that the Ayn Rand, everyone of themself, Bushiness people are gods who can do no wrong if the government gets out the way, is false, they aren't all that stupid, and they realize that big business has been allowed to fuck the country up, the 5 year economic malaise we are in is directly because of what so called rational businessmen did, and they are looking for answers. They realize not doing anything, or worse, gutting what is there, won't solve the problems...austerity sounds great, but in Europe it is crippling the economy, the Euro zone economy is floundering, and most economists say it is because they went austerity in the middle of a recessionary world economy.f

Maybe it is also because they realize that what passes for conservatism these days has no ideas, that all they are is the anti Obama, rather than coming up with real ideas. Everything they promote, cutting taxes for the rich, cutting government spending, is a no, it isn't a yes to anything, plus many people I tink realize that supply side economics, from the Reagan era on, hurt most people and benefitted the very few, and the numbers bear that out..since 1980's, the amount of income and wealth has soared in the top 1%, while stagnating or declining everywhere else, and the amount of taxes paid, proportional to the rate of increase of these, has plummeted, it is why a billionaire can pay as a percentage of his income a lot less than a cleaning lady.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 8:32:32 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

Conservatism has gone so far to the right, between the religious right/social conservatives and the economic extremism of the tea party, that what was once considered centrist or moderate is now considered liberal.


This is exactly correct. The US is returning to the middle. The far right has been impeached by the economic recovery (higher taxes, more regulation) and the economic meltdown (lower taxes / less regulation.)

The right's talk about the deficit is hollow b/c defense spending is off their list of cuts. Gay marriage is not the wedge issue it once was, and defending assault weapons and high magazine clips won't win them any swing votes.


< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/26/2013 8:38:35 AM >

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 9:23:36 AM   
TricklessMagic


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Unfortunately the right has gone too far to the right for the time being. I try to explain to my brethren on the right that we have to accept gay marriage, marijuana legalization, abortion, and a reformed form of immigration that creates a path to citizenship. They think I'm nuts for it but I try to explain to them that young people don't care about sexual orientation, abortion, marijuana use, or national identity.

If you want to maintain individual responsibility and fiscal conservatism you have to give on some of the social issues. If you don't you lose out on the centrists and the fence sitters and that's what is happening. More folks who have centrist and I dare say conservative values are identifying as liberals because they think anti-abortion is ridiculous, anti-gay marriage is ridiculous, anti-pot smoking is ridiculous, and anti-immigration is ridiculous. And they are right in my opinion. I won't give on gun rights or fiscal conservatism, or holding people responsible for their own success but socially for the most part I just don't give a flying fuck. The problem is too many on the left want to destroy my 2nd Amendment rights so I can't vote for them, oh well.

When I was in college I was a liberal and helped get folks registered to vote so we could get Kerry in. I was anti-Bush and still sort of am (sorry Iraq was a complete boondoggle for corporate America) and I kept thinking the college students were ridiculous for voting Bush and this is UCF in Central Florida, I couldn't believe they were so lock-step for Bush but 9/11 seemed to give Bush Carte Blanche to do whatever he wanted. Then I realized how much I disliked liberals who were mad at me for having my own business, owning guns, and not loving socialism and I gave up.

Everything is cyclical but if the GOP doesn't get with reality and move more to the center on major social issues it's going to lose out on the next upswing in potential constituents eight years from now.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 9:29:25 AM   
DomKen


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If you examine polling America has always been a liberal nation on the issues even when the largest plurality identified otherwise. Single payer health care has been polling above 50% for at least 20 years. So has socialized higher education and increased regulations and taxes on business.

You can find aticles on this disconnect going back at least into the 80's. I think that what is now happening is the conservative movement has so discredited itself that its long campaign to equate liberalism with every bad thing imaginable has fallen apart.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 11:13:01 AM   
erieangel


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quote:

If you examine polling America has always been a liberal nation on the issues even when the largest plurality identified otherwise.


Yep. And then the politicians have turned around and done what their overlords have wanted. Every. Single. Time.

Why listen to the results of polls (or even the results of the voting booth) when it is corporate America paying the bills of the politicians?

From Reagan on, every president has done his part in chipping away at the social safety net, anti-trust laws and regulatory law. Competition among businesses is almost a thing of the past, small neighborhood stores are nearly nonexistent due to the power of the corporations like Walmart. Heck, in my city we don't even have a Sheetz or a 7-11 (2 of the biggest convenience store chains). Nearly all of the gas stations within the city limits are owned by United Refining Company (a small regional refinery located in Warren, PA and owned by a NY speculator). Somehow, he's managed to bully our city counsel and keep competition out of the city limits.

People are finally waking up to what has been happening the past 40 years. They read about the state of our social safety net, about the level of our poverty, about the number of children who go to bed hungry (in the "best nation on earth") and they read about the social safety net in countries like Denmark where, yes taxes are much higher but nobody dies from lack of health care and everybody who is capable of learning is offered higher education through graduate school without the stress or concern of wondering how to pay for it because it is free to the student (including a stipend). And they are wondering if a small country like Denmark can do that why can't we?




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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 11:52:19 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

conservative movement has so discredited itself


I'm amazed at its staying power, actually. The Republicans are actually doubling down on their policies despite the facts, data, and ruinous outcomes of the Bush ADM. There's a religious quality to the right --- not to stray from dogma -- at any cost.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 12:04:51 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

conservative movement has so discredited itself


I'm amazed at its staying power, actually. The Republicans are actually doubling down on their policies despite the facts, data, and ruinous outcomes of the Bush ADM. There's a religious quality to the right --- not to stray from dogma -- at any cost.

It's the echo chamber IMO. The right has all these institutions that all exist to tell them they are right and that everything is just the way they wish it was. We saw it in the lead up to the November election, anyone who could understand the polling data could tell that Obama was going to win in a walk but they kept telling each other that Romney was going to win until they actually believed it. Then afterwards it seemed like they might actually try and adjust to reality but those same institutions made up rationalizations for why conservatives hadn't really lost. 

We're seeing it again with these so called scandals. Unless you pay attention to nothing but the institutions of the conservative movement you likely don't view any of these incidents as all that major while those who get all their information and opinions from the echo chamber really think these are scandals as big or bigger than Watergate and Iran/Contra.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 12:29:27 PM   
Memphismaster61


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Actually, it's a lot more simpler than that.

First of all, BOTH parties are the same side of the coin. Philosophically, they aren't that different today.

The major difference is, Democrats are Santa Claus. They just L-O-V-E giving out money to their friends. As for the people, beginning with the Great Society, whole swatches of our population have been conditioned to accept the free money Dems love to give out. And that has proven out, generation after generation.

Ostensibly, Repubs represent "The Rich." Guess what? Most of the millionaires in Congress are Dems. Anyway, Repubs have the outlook of, "If you work hard enough, long enough, you can be rich too." So, which would you do? Get paid for doing little or nothing, even if it is a bare subsistence level, or work hard for most of your life to have a shot of becoming wealthy?

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 1:04:17 PM   
FrostedFlake


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For some time now the major parties have been doing a special dance. The reds step to the right. The blues step into the place the reds just vacated, making sure they can't step back. Then they do it again. They have rationalized this by asserting the entire country is trending right and they are responding to that trend. But that isn't really true. Consequently, the major parties are both on the right, with one a bit further out to provide a bit of daylight between that they both call 'the center'. But the actual center is significantly to the blues left. The general publics' perception differs slightly, and temporarily, because often the parties themselves are the most visible markers on the political landscape. Eventually, after a certain period of delay, people reassess. And then they vote their interests. This appears as a leftward tic in polling data.

Or so goes the theory.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 1:46:27 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Memphismaster61

Actually, it's a lot more simpler than that.

First of all, BOTH parties are the same side of the coin. Philosophically, they aren't that different today.

The major difference is, Democrats are Santa Claus. They just L-O-V-E giving out money to their friends. As for the people, beginning with the Great Society, whole swatches of our population have been conditioned to accept the free money Dems love to give out. And that has proven out, generation after generation.

Ostensibly, Repubs represent "The Rich." Guess what? Most of the millionaires in Congress are Dems. Anyway, Repubs have the outlook of, "If you work hard enough, long enough, you can be rich too." So, which would you do? Get paid for doing little or nothing, even if it is a bare subsistence level, or work hard for most of your life to have a shot of becoming wealthy?


This BS is part of the conservative movement's playbook. There are significant differences between the parties and it is not just welfare.

Socially the parties are far apart and on economics issues the last few years have shown just how captured by the anti tax movement the GOP has become.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 2:38:47 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This BS is part of the conservative movement's playbook. There are significant differences between the parties and it is not just welfare.

Socially the parties are far apart and on economics issues the last few years have shown just how captured by the anti tax movement the GOP has become.



yep you got the commies and the nazis!

be thankful they leave you a few crumbs now and then between them



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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 3:01:02 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Conservatism has gone so far to the right, between the religious right/social conservatives and the economic extremism of the tea party, that what was once considered centrist or moderate is now considered liberal.


This is exactly correct. The US is returning to the middle. The far right has been impeached by the economic recovery (higher taxes, more regulation) and the economic meltdown (lower taxes / less regulation.)

The right's talk about the deficit is hollow b/c defense spending is off their list of cuts. Gay marriage is not the wedge issue it once was, and defending assault weapons and high magazine clips won't win them any swing votes.




What a crock of shit !!!!! This country has been going left since Wilson, one tiny tick at a time and picking up speed over the past 3-4 decades. Now it's full steam ahead. Leftists haven't a clue of what they're unleashing.



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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 5:01:39 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Memphismaster61

Actually, it's a lot more simpler than that.

First of all, BOTH parties are the same side of the coin. Philosophically, they aren't that different today.

The major difference is, Democrats are Santa Claus. They just L-O-V-E giving out money to their friends. As for the people, beginning with the Great Society, whole swatches of our population have been conditioned to accept the free money Dems love to give out. And that has proven out, generation after generation.

Ostensibly, Repubs represent "The Rich." Guess what? Most of the millionaires in Congress are Dems. Anyway, Repubs have the outlook of, "If you work hard enough, long enough, you can be rich too." So, which would you do? Get paid for doing little or nothing, even if it is a bare subsistence level, or work hard for most of your life to have a shot of becoming wealthy?



Both parties give it out, the only difference is where the GOP gives it out. I am so fucking tired of hearing how the GOP leaning states vote that way because they are tired of the government 'supporting those people' on 'my tax dollars'..when many of those people and states rely on the federal government for a lot. Mitch McConnel loves to talk about the 'economic miracle' in his district, the auto plants down there, but part of the reason they are there is because the area gets TVA power at cost, from Tah Dah! Uncle Sam. The southern Pine industry depends on trees planted by the CCC in the depression under Roosevelt; must of the deep south has power because of the TVA, and also because of the rural electrification authority, that laid in power lines because no private company would do it (same for farmers). We spend 100 billion a year on agricultural subsidies, including for Tobacco, in a time of high commodity prices. We have the ethanol boondoggle, that GOP types promote to the tune of 20 billion a year, because it makes corn farmers smile and ag businesses like ADM. Note that in the last election, Mitt Romney promoted increasing defense spending, even though the military is saying that the kind of military we need doesn't justify that. Why? Well, take a look at where defense plants and military bases are located, guess what, Red state land.

The red states also tend to get a lot more of their medicaid funding from the government, education money (down south, on average, 20% of education funding comes from the feds, nationally it is 9%; in my neck of the woods, about 1%).

The difference is the GOP pretends to be the party of personal responsibility, but is the biggest freeloader in many cases on the government. Old Newt Gingrich was a prime example, while fighting with Clinton over budget cuts, withi his 'contract on America', his district enjoyed billions a year in federal pork, Michael Moore did a devastating profile of it on "TV Nation".

And yeah, the democrats do believe in spending, though the current crowd is centrist, closer to the GOP of the 70's, and unlike the GOP, they realize the government does some things much better than the private sector. The Dems believe in spending on education, whereas the GOP wants "redneck nation', cause they know that lot easier to fool idiots with maybe the 3r's then someone who is educated; the Dems believe in research, which the GOP types will tell you is all because of 'private business' (want to have fun? Ask a tea party type where inventions like the internet, integrated circuits, the transistor, fiber optics, carbon fiber, advanced plastics, polymer chemistry, the digital computer and the like came from...and you will get things like IBM, ATT, etc, etc...when all those were done with government research money). Not to mention, of course, corporate welfare, the huge tax breaks they give business who turn around and ship jobs to china, the tax breaks they give the well off who instead of investing in capital formation, put it in offshore bank accounts, and so forth. And not to mention the huge subsidies to rural america, paid for by people in the built up regions, all to keep the base happy. If farmers and the rural areas actually had to pay for their stuff, my tax bills would go down tremendously, since instead of getting back 65c on the dollar as we do in NJ, NY, and Conn, we would get back 1 buck and not have to pay for so much ourselves...all you have to do is look at who votes for the GOP, and you have the answer on who they pay off.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 5:07:58 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

For some time now the major parties have been doing a special dance. The reds step to the right. The blues step into the place the reds just vacated, making sure they can't step back. Then they do it again. They have rationalized this by asserting the entire country is trending right and they are responding to that trend. But that isn't really true. Consequently, the major parties are both on the right, with one a bit further out to provide a bit of daylight between that they both call 'the center'. But the actual center is significantly to the blues left. The general publics' perception differs slightly, and temporarily, because often the parties themselves are the most visible markers on the political landscape. Eventually, after a certain period of delay, people reassess. And then they vote their interests. This appears as a leftward tic in polling data.

Or so goes the theory.


I think you are correct. The other thing to keep in mind is that what appears to be a 'rightward movement' has been spurred by the 24/7 media, by talk radio and Fox News making it appear like so many people in this country come from east buttfuckville, Ark and the like. I think the other answer is if you are correct, and many people are to the left of center, then with the Dems going more right (as they have since Clinton), a lot of those who otherwise would vote Dem are staying at home. If right now 80 or 90% of registered voters voted in elections, the GOP would look like the Dems in the 72 election, they would be buried, but because so many people don't vote, it looks like we have this conservative groundswell, that the country's values all reside in central Florida, Arkansas, Georgia and the farm belt, and it doesn't. Among other things, the GOP is desperate, because the young people, even from the rural regions, simply don't share what their parents believe, the whole guns, god and abortion crap. The GOP right now is the party of the south, the farm belt and old white people, if you saw their convention it could have been from 1955, it was so white. They are turning into a regional party because on the national stage, they are getting hammered..and within a generation or two, some of the 'red states' are going to be leaning more and more blue as the old farts die off, the old rednecks from the civil rights era, and the like.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 5:20:29 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/26/gallup-poll-and-new-study-reveal-americas-growing-love-for-liberal-views/


This is what I`ve been saying.....the whole thing is moving left.....


This is a slippery slope no conservative can avoid.....


Awesome! Does this mean that California is finally going to end up in the ocean?

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/26/2013 5:40:19 PM   
Politesub53


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Aylee, move to the dark side, we can meet in the middle.

It is much more fun being in the centre as you get insulted by everyone.....

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/27/2013 12:04:11 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

What a crock of shit !!!!! This country has been going left since Wilson, one tiny tick at a time and picking up speed over the past 3-4 decades. Now it's full steam ahead. Leftists haven't a clue of what they're unleashing


This post is excellent evidence that those on the far Right of politics have no idea what the rest of the spectrum looks like.

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/27/2013 3:42:51 AM   
Politesub53


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Teakable, are you suggesting he doesnt know port from starboard, or arse from elbow ?

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RE: Gallup,New Study Confirm America`s Starting To Lean... - 5/27/2013 4:45:05 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Aylee, move to the dark side, we can meet in the middle.
It is much more fun being in the centre as you get insulted by everyone.....





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