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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 10:14:39 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Oh, I had help on that shot, to be honest. My buddy Sean was working the spotting scope and I had quite a bit of holdover, but I also had a monster scope and some really good home-rolls in the tube that day. Here ya go:.22-250 Bullet Drop Chart

Feh. That would have been an easy shot with my trusty Z50 carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 12:00:23 PM   
cloudboy


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God I love that picture!







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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 12:25:15 PM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Oh, I had help on that shot, to be honest. My buddy Sean was working the spotting scope and I had quite a bit of holdover, but I also had a monster scope and some really good home-rolls in the tube that day. Here ya go:.22-250 Bullet Drop Chart

Feh. That would have been an easy shot with my trusty Z50 carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.

You'll put an eye out, Ralphie...

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 12:38:17 PM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

The M16A2 is a great rifle. The M16A1 was crap.


The A2 has some good points, such as the much-easier to adjust sights, three-round burst, and a few other refinements gleaned from the A1. The only problem I can see with it is it started to gain weight. The put on a heavier barrel with a corresponding handguard for better heat control, there is a small amount added by the inclusion of the three-shot burst (tiny, really), and a few other odds and ends. Happened with the A1 too.

The original AR-15/M-16 (both nomenclatures apply to the same rifle at the time) was a very light, streamlined rifle-of-the-future. In full battle dress it weighed around 7 pounds with a full 20 round magazine. When they upgraded to the A1, the modifications added about a pound and a half. Doesn't sound like much, but on the fifteen mile of a march, every ounce counts.

In its role, the A1 served perfectly well. The A2 is a little better, in my opinion, largely owing to the heavier barrel and better heat management. Both will perform the same job equally.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 1:31:39 AM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
500 yards really is nothing at all.
I used to pick off small birds over 400 yards away with just a Z50 air rifle and hunters (steel) pellets and an open sight.
A decent rifle should be chicken feed at 500 yards..........

God bless the internet and silly ass shit like this. Next thing you know, this guy is gonna' tell us he shoots helicopters outta' the sky with his air gun. I had a Steyr Mannlicher 300 Winchester Magnum and it was good to about 500 or 600 yards, but that was in real life, not some bullshit post about a descendant of the Red Ryder air rifle picking off helicopters at 1000 yards. My bad, that was small birds at 400 yards . . . just as ridiculous.

The legal air rifle limit in UK where you live is 12 ft/lbs and some of the most powerful ones I have heard of get 29 ft/lbs. A 300 Win Mag needs 3,598 ft/lbs at muzzle to get 2,200 ft/lbs at 400 yards. You want us to believe your 12 ft/lbs air rifle not only reached 400 yards but was lethal to small prey?

So I went with the possibility that your Z50 was some super special powerful air gun that was beyond the legal limits in the UK. I imagined you with giant air tanks on your back and hoses feeding this big fucking gun with monstrous pressure, so I looked it up to see what kind of power the Z50 had . . . only there is no such thing as a Z50 air rifle.

Basically it seems like you're full of it.



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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 6:17:51 AM   
TahoeSadist


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quote:


ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
God bless the internet and silly ass shit like this. Next thing you know, this guy is gonna' tell us he shoots helicopters outta' the sky with his air gun. I had a Steyr Mannlicher 300 Winchester Magnum and it was good to about 500 or 600 yards, but that was in real life, not some bullshit post about a descendant of the Red Ryder air rifle picking off helicopters at 1000 yards. My bad, that was small birds at 400 yards . . . just as ridiculous.

The legal air rifle limit in UK where you live is 12 ft/lbs and some of the most powerful ones I have heard of get 29 ft/lbs. A 300 Win Mag needs 3,598 ft/lbs at muzzle to get 2,200 ft/lbs at 400 yards. You want us to believe your 12 ft/lbs air rifle not only reached 400 yards but was lethal to small prey?

So I went with the possibility that your Z50 was some super special powerful air gun that was beyond the legal limits in the UK. I imagined you with giant air tanks on your back and hoses feeding this big fucking gun with monstrous pressure, so I looked it up to see what kind of power the Z50 had . . . only there is no such thing as a Z50 air rifle.

Basically it seems like you're full of it.




Well played!

TS

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 9:47:21 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I don't understand how this would work. If the laser and target needs to be set by pulling the trigger then how would the computer know if you were not aiming at a particular point and just fire the weapon immediately as the trigger was pulled. Also say it lags a time before information is gotten from sensors and in that time the target moves...and you never can regain the aiming point... what happens? How do you end the search safely?

I just don't see this as well thought out and safe new technology... and almost certainly would not work on a moving target. Say a gust of wind comes up just as you pull the trigger and the weapon does not fire... How do you know which way to move the rifle so it can fire or does the computer have the ability to physically move the barrel? Does a little arrow appear in the display?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/19/2013 10:39:54 AM >

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 11:00:30 AM   
stef


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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 11:48:57 AM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Where did our space shuttle door gunner run off to? Did M reinstate his Double-O status and send him out to handle some wet work in the finch community?


If we told you, we'd have to kill you...

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 11:56:38 AM   
outlier


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Where did our space shuttle door gunner run off to? Did M reinstate his Double-O status and send him out to handle some wet work in the finch community?


This explains why neither RS nor I could find the Z50 miracle rifle.
It is not commercially available.  Q issued it to him.


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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 12:28:48 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't understand how this would work. If the laser and target needs to be set by pulling the trigger then how would the computer know if you were not aiming at a particular point and just fire the weapon immediately as the trigger was pulled. Also say it lags a time before information is gotten from sensors and in that time the target moves...and you never can regain the aiming point... what happens? How do you end the search safely?

I just don't see this as well thought out and safe new technology... and almost certainly would not work on a moving target. Say a gust of wind comes up just as you pull the trigger and the weapon does not fire... How do you know which way to move the rifle so it can fire or does the computer have the ability to physically move the barrel? Does a little arrow appear in the display?

Butch

That is because you do not understand it at all. Watch the videos on YouTube, they will help you understand it. There are a bunch of videos. This system works just like the optical recognition systems designed to hit laser tagged targets from airplanes and helicopters. When you do come to understand, your jaw will drop realizing the accuracy of it.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 6:06:55 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I did my friend ..quote..."shooter locks a laser on the target by pushing a small button by the trigger. It's like a video game." OK so if the laser is locked with the touch of a button why waste time with a laser lock...just pull the damn trigger. If the gun is instantly and continually tracking conditions then it should shoot and hit that spot in the cross hairs.

And as I said... I don't know about you but if I am looking at deer at 300 yards through a scope and it moves it is hard as hell to even get it back in the view let alone move the cross hairs to an exact spot so the gun will fire while the deer is in motion.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/19/2013 6:31:57 PM >

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/19/2013 7:15:19 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		not worth the time sorry

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/19/2013 7:19:06 PM >

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/20/2013 8:57:32 AM   
shallowdeep


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Status: offline 		Ars Technica had a couple of articles, including a hands on experience, with more depth about the technology than the NPR piece. The NPR story probably does not capture the full range of the system's capability with its 500 yard quote. According to Ars, someone who had never fired a rifle was able to hit a "big dinner plate" sized target at just over 1000 yards on their first try. They could hit the same target "just about every time" at that range, albeit with an experienced spotter to suggest corrections for crosswinds, which need to be entered manually. For comparison, in 1999 the US Army published a paper that puts the probability of a trained sniper team hitting an E-silhouette target at 500 yards at 79 percent. At 1000 yards, the probability dropped to 11 percent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
I would not trust my family's safety to that. There are just too many single-points of failure in that design.

The system certainly introduces plenty of additional points of failure, but the consequences of those failures would be an useless expensive computer… not really a safety issue. It's not like the computer is capable of firing the rifle; the gun only fires when the trigger is being depressed by an external force. The system works by increasing the trigger's resistance to prevent firing until the the shot is (at least according to the ballistics computer) perfectly aligned, at which point the trigger returns to normal weighting, resulting in firing if a sufficient force is being applied against it. The only thing the computer can do is prevent a shot. I don't see how the rifle is more dangerous than a similar conventional one. If anything, it seems like it might be somewhat safer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
OK so if the laser is locked with the touch of a button why waste time with a laser lock...just pull the damn trigger.

Lasers beams and bullets don't follow the same trajectory. Aiming the gun at the point that allows one to hit the target means you will miss with the other at longer ranges. The laser doesn't actually lock – it's just brief illumination for range finding, tracking is done with image feature recognition.

quote:

I don't understand how this would work.

If you are curious, the Ars Technica article does a pretty good job explaining it.

< Message edited by shallowdeep -- 5/20/2013 8:58:32 AM >

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/20/2013 3:22:44 PM   
Muttling


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Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		As a life long hunter, my experience is that making the shot is not the hard part of hunting. Finding your game and setting up the shot is the hard part.



If what I have said wasn't true, they would call it deer shooting instead of deer hunting.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/20/2013 8:33:00 PM   
MasterCaneman


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Status: offline 		The only real problem I have with this is it requires batteries, and my experience has told me that whenever you really, really, really need something to work that's battery powered is when it fails. Echoing the multiple points of failure-too complex, even with mil-grade parts. Highly specialized uses only, not a general-issue item. I'll stick with my irons and dumb optics for now, thank you.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/20/2013 8:52:44 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
I would not trust my family's safety to that. There are just too many single-points of failure in that design.

The system certainly introduces plenty of additional points of failure, but the consequences of those failures would be an useless expensive computer… not really a safety issue. It's not like the computer is capable of firing the rifle; the gun only fires when the trigger is being depressed by an external force. The system works by increasing the trigger's resistance to prevent firing until the the shot is (at least according to the ballistics computer) perfectly aligned, at which point the trigger returns to normal weighting, resulting in firing if a sufficient force is being applied against it. The only thing the computer can do is prevent a shot. I don't see how the rifle is more dangerous than a similar conventional one. If anything, it seems like it might be somewhat safer.



You don't understand what I mean: If I decide to take a shot, I need that firearm to do exactly what I tell it to. I won't have time for a machine to say, "I can't do that Dave."

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/20/2013 9:45:27 PM   
ARIES83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

The only real problem I have with this is it requires batteries, and my experience has told me that whenever you really, really, really need something to work that's battery powered is when it fails.


Yes... Totally agree. Had a torch fail on me at the most inopportune moment last week during a external nite patrol, just entered a dark area, desided to shed some light on the situation, torch didn't cooperate, queue sound in bushes...

It was a Fenix LD10, even with the failure, the fault was field serviceable, and I will still stand by that particular torch due to it's excellent service so far coupled with the pretty minor and easily correctable nature of the fault... (Only required opening up and tightening a piece.)
But fark.... Worst timing in the world... Getting aback up is now in the cards.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/21/2013 8:06:23 AM   
MasterCaneman


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Status: offline 		With flashlights (what we colonials quaintly call torches), the rule I adhere to is at least two, and I check the cells at least once a month, if anything to prevent them from rupturing and ruining my pricy possessions. I don't believe in cheap lights-virtually assured of failure when you need them most. I'm a Mag-Lite guy through and through, from micros to patrol-size because you can use them as great whacking-sticks if need be.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/21/2013 4:28:20 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Haha, yes I know a lot of people who use those big maglites, as a wacking stick I personally think an extendable baton is a much more effective tool, mainly due to reach and speed, but there are other properties I like over a maglite aswell.

The torch I carry is only 100lum, under the recomended output for an ocular disrupter, but I find it's all relitive... I think those ratings are ment to work in the day aswell, at nite 100 seems like plenty.

One excellent point Maglites do have in their favour is (I'm pretty sure) they are direct drive. Very desirable from a reliability standpoint.

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 5/21/2013 4:29:07 PM >

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