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If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/6/2013 6:36:06 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		God would have a heart attack.

This little item popped up on my facebook page today.

quote:

Eric Holder says Feds Will Ignore State Laws and Enforce Gun Grab

Attorney General Eric Holder has written to Kansas Governor Sam Brownback (shown), informing him that the Obama administration considers state attempts to protect the Second Amendment “unconstitutional” and that federal agents will “continue to execute their duties,” regardless of state statutes to the contrary.
Source


Considering some of the lamebrain crap that Holder has done in the past, I decided to check it out.

First of all, no one, not even Fox news has anything on this with the exception of the Extreme gun lobby (more extreme than the NRA.) Secondly, none of these people seem to realize that the gun control bill DIED in the senate and nothing new has been introduced.

Finally, while Bush Sr. and Clinton used executive orders to ban the import of certain weapons, they do not have the power under executive order to do an outright ban of guns.

Well, they could, but according to Huffington post, (pro left, anti-gun) it probably would not stand up to a supreme court decision.

Besides, Obama (as much an idiot as he is) seems to prefer to not make law under Executive order, preferring to do the minimum in that way in order to get something better from congress.

BTW, yes I voted for Obama both times he ran, and yes I called him an idiot, however, having had some indepth experience with the Mormon church, (my second wife converted to the LDS church,) there was no way in hell, even if God and Satan themselves appeared before me and told me to vote for Romney, was I going to vote for a Mormon.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/6/2013 6:50:40 PM   
cloudboy


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Arms manufacturers / representatives *manufacturing* threats. Marketing 101.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/6/2013 7:13:41 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I thought that the new thing was that Holder was considering suing states that have passed bills not allowing federal gun registration lists. Or something like that.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/6/2013 7:21:27 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		Extremist gunners keep warning of confiscation, extremist anti-gunners keep saying that if it weren't for guns we would live in a utopia. Never mind that the government is scared of the gun lobby and never mind that we lock up people for taking a puff of weed and send them to criminal college to come out real felon being the reason for half the crime.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 1:40:03 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

First of all, no one, not even Fox news has anything on this with the exception of the Extreme gun lobby

Brownback vs Holder: State vs Federal Law

The State of Kansas has followed the lead of the States of Montana and Alaska and passed legislation barring enforcement of federal firearm legislation for firearms manufactured, sold, and possessed inside the state. It not only prevents state officials from enforcing federal legislation, but makes it a felony for federal agents in the state to enforce federal regulations.

The Attorney General claims the state legislation is unconstitutional because sate law can't trump federal law.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/138995467/Eric-Holder-Threatens-Kansas-Over-Gun-Control-Nullification
http://www.scribd.com/doc/139146961/Kansas-Secretary-of-State-Kobach-Responds-to-Eric-Holder

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/7/2013 1:43:13 AM >

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 3:01:44 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Whatever the rights and wrongs of gun control or lack thereof, it seems to me that the entire gun control debate might be made redundant by technology.

A pro-gun group called Defence Distributed has manufactured and tested the world's first gun made using a 3-D printer. As the technology advances, it can be expected that people will be able to manufacture any hand held weapon at home using 3-D technology. This will make any attempt to control firearms impossible.

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/files-posted-online-to-print-working-gun-20130507-2j4bn.html

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 3:37:07 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This will make any attempt to control firearms impossible.

But as your link notes, they will try.

In the US House of Representatives, Congressman Steve Israel, also from New York, is sponsoring an Undetectable Firearms Modernisation Act to outlaw plastic home-made guns.

K.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 5:54:52 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Extremist gunners keep warning of confiscation, extremist anti-gunners keep saying that if it weren't for guns we would live in a utopia.


I've never actually heard of an extremist anti-gunner, I have seen the pro-gun posters stick that position in a number of people's mouths on the other side though.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 8:29:11 AM   
TricklessMagic


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
Status: offline 		Help me out here. Where is the lie told by extreme Pro-2nd Amendment folks. Holder did send a letter to the governor and AG of Kansas letting them know he wasn't happy http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/2/attorney-general-eric-holder-kansas-gov-sam-brownb/

So what's the big deal exactly? States are choosing to exercise their rights and powers. Eric Holder could take the issue before the SCOTUS to have it decided one way or the other if he was really that concerned. The usual suspects are making their gun laws more lenient while others are stiffening them, Colorado was the only unexpected upset in this whole mess. But that happens when Californian refugees move there for two plus decades.

On 3d guns, Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed (visit defcad.org), his 3D printed gun is a joke amongst gunsmiths. His gun wasn't the first by a long shot. It's an AR15 grip with a receiver housing that uses a contained hammer system. It's essentially nothing more than a single shot, single-action, breach loader. I have a pneumatic air pistol that pushes a 55 grain .223 FMJ at eight hundred fps that my buddy has printed off his 3D printer (I don't get mine delivered till June). It does use a metal resevoir tank inside the grip.

When Cody Wilson can produce a pneumatic air pistol that'll push a 55 grain .223 FMJ (or cast) at twelve hundred fps, that can be pumped up by hand, then we'll have something to get excited about. Otherwise I can just go down to my local auto store and make a zip gun with a silencer for less than fifty bucks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

God would have a heart attack.

This little item popped up on my facebook page today.

quote:

Eric Holder says Feds Will Ignore State Laws and Enforce Gun Grab

Attorney General Eric Holder has written to Kansas Governor Sam Brownback (shown), informing him that the Obama administration considers state attempts to protect the Second Amendment “unconstitutional” and that federal agents will “continue to execute their duties,” regardless of state statutes to the contrary.
Source


Considering some of the lamebrain crap that Holder has done in the past, I decided to check it out.

First of all, no one, not even Fox news has anything on this with the exception of the Extreme gun lobby (more extreme than the NRA.) Secondly, none of these people seem to realize that the gun control bill DIED in the senate and nothing new has been introduced.

Finally, while Bush Sr. and Clinton used executive orders to ban the import of certain weapons, they do not have the power under executive order to do an outright ban of guns.

Well, they could, but according to Huffington post, (pro left, anti-gun) it probably would not stand up to a supreme court decision.

Besides, Obama (as much an idiot as he is) seems to prefer to not make law under Executive order, preferring to do the minimum in that way in order to get something better from congress.

BTW, yes I voted for Obama both times he ran, and yes I called him an idiot, however, having had some indepth experience with the Mormon church, (my second wife converted to the LDS church,) there was no way in hell, even if God and Satan themselves appeared before me and told me to vote for Romney, was I going to vote for a Mormon.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 8:44:31 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Extremist gunners keep warning of confiscation, extremist anti-gunners keep saying that if it weren't for guns we would live in a utopia.

Really? Which extremist anti gunners have been claiming that, then?

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 9:16:37 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		anyone who disagrees with the extremist "gun nutters" out there....thats the gun nutters not gun owners and only the extremist ones, for anyone looking to get their testicles in a twist.
really...if only some of these people understood what the terms they threw around, things would be a whole lot better
Porter and Lapierre come to mind.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 9:28:04 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		Look at every gun thread here on CC....If we would just ban guns, our murder rate would drop from 4.7/100k to 1/100k or less. This of course has nothing to do with the fact that the US is prison factory, we have an assanine drug policy that has more than doubled the crime/incarceration rate since the 50s and so forth. Utopia is a exaggeration, but so is total confiscation.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 9:36:49 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		I really hate to point this out (actually to even type this out), but home-made guns aren't really all that hard to build. Neither is cased ammunition, if you know what you're doing. And yes, I am including every component necessary. I can go out right now to three stores and purchase everything I need to construct a functional self-loading firearm complete with a detachable magazine and ammunition.

Do I have the tools and skills to do everything involved? Not all of them, but the point is, it is quite possible to do so. I know people who've built 1911s from bar stock, I've handled an Afghan Enfield clone that was entirely hand-built (the barrel was treated rebar!). The tools you need can be had at any hardware/hobby store, the materials in the same place. 3D printing just makes it easier and in a 'new' medium.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 11:47:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic

Help me out here. Where is the lie told by extreme Pro-2nd Amendment folks. Holder did send a letter to the governor and AG of Kansas letting them know he wasn't happy http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/2/attorney-general-eric-holder-kansas-gov-sam-brownb/

So what's the big deal exactly? States are choosing to exercise their rights and powers. Eric Holder could take the issue before the SCOTUS to have it decided one way or the other if he was really that concerned. The usual suspects are making their gun laws more lenient while others are stiffening them, Colorado was the only unexpected upset in this whole mess. But that happens when Californian refugees move there for two plus decades.

It's already been decided. Federal law always trumps state law. No state can pass a law saying that a federal law cannot be enforced. That's why the DEA still goes after medicinal pot operations in states where that was legalized.

The only novel twist is Kansas trying to avoid the laws regulating guns based on the feds interstate trade power.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 12:51:49 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		FR

Why the gun control discussion can never take place.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 1:44:26 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Look at every gun thread here on CC....

I have, and nobody's making any such hyperbolic and asinine claims, I'm afraid.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/7/2013 7:43:09 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Utopia is a exaggeration, but so is total confiscation.


Yeah I've only ever seen either of those positions made by "extremist gunners" exaggerating the positions of the other side in an implicit admission that "extremist gunners" are unable to make their own positions sound reasonable in an intellectually honest discussion.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 5/7/2013 7:44:06 PM >

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/8/2013 10:14:35 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Some fruitcake DA in NYC tried this a while back, wanted to arrest federal LE for carrying their duty weapons on duty 'in violation of' local laws'. Let's just say that the feds are still there, the DA is not.

This smells like the 'Constitutional Carry' folks and their sovereign citizen fantasies.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's already been decided. Federal law always trumps state law. No state can pass a law saying that a federal law cannot be enforced. That's why the DEA still goes after medicinal pot operations in states where that was legalized.

The only novel twist is Kansas trying to avoid the laws regulating guns based on the feds interstate trade power.



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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/8/2013 10:22:34 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This will make any attempt to control firearms impossible.

But as your link notes, they will try.

In the US House of Representatives, Congressman Steve Israel, also from New York, is sponsoring an Undetectable Firearms Modernisation Act to outlaw plastic home-made guns.

K.



A law against plastic guns was already passed--during Reagan's administration.

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RE: If the Extreme Gun Rights people ever told the truth - 5/9/2013 9:59:16 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		I though it was states that pass laws threatening to arrest federal law enforcement agents if they try to enforce federal law in the state.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I thought that the new thing was that Holder was considering suing states that have passed bills not allowing federal gun registration lists. Or something like that.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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