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RE: New NRA Prez Jim Porter Stoking New Civil War (VIDEO) - 5/4/2013 9:32:13 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Watched the video, and I didn't see him advocating rebellion. Merely stating that gun owners stand in the way of tyranny.

I think you are upset with hearing a man speak in a Southern accent.

He has to go much further to get to Wayne levels....

Except believing that having guns will stop tyranny is a real pipe dream. It will do no such thing when and if the govt. finally go over the 'fascist deep end.'



Attrition and numbers will be what matters in the end. There are simply more armed individuals in the US than there are police and military. I keep hearing about F-15s, tanks, and drones, but that's ignoring the fact that it requires personnel to operate and maintain them. Live, rested, protected personnel. They can't do their jobs if they're dead, wounded, or spending so much time fighting off pinprick attacks.

Couple that with the psychic shock of going to war in their own hometowns and you get the idea that there's a very real and chilling agenda about why the government wants to disarm the population. And don't start telling me about how ineffective we'd be up against "real" soldiers. I was one of those "real" soldiers, and I am fully aware that if lead starts flying, I'd almost assuredly not see the end of it. I am content with that outcome, because I am very confident that I will take at least one or two with me. That's the attrition part of the equation. There are around 20 million shooters in the United States. True, not all of them are going to rebel, but even a fraction could wreak holy hell on this country where it's truly weakest: at home.

There are only about 2.2 million personnel in the entire armed forces of the United States. Add in maybe another million or so law enforcement (DHS, HSA, state and local PDs). Three million against twenty million are not good odds, even with tanks, planes, and drones. And it wouldn't be a set-piece battle, either. Think snipers and ambushes more than Kursks and Alameins. I'm sure there are some commanders who'd try, and they'd eventually find themselves in a hopeless quagmire of defending the Union from within and without.

And don't forget the fact that there are opportunists in this world that would love nothing better than to see the US government fail. There are something like 100 million AKs of various stripes in circulation and megatons of military stores that could see these shores, especially during a nationwide insurrection. Another major problem they will face will be the noncombatants who cannot or will not take up arms for either side, but rather will stand by and wait for the outcome. With infrastructures compromised, they will be another drain on their resources, lest they become hostiles themselves.

That is what can happen if this government goes over the "fascist deep end", and neither side wants that. Yet.


_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: New NRA Prez Jim Porter Stoking New Civil War (VIDEO) - 5/4/2013 10:12:19 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline
Oh, it isn't arms alone.

The Vietnamese will to gain freedom simply outlasted the resources that the politicians of 2 larger nations were willing to expend.

An internal revolution of the sort imagined (the evil gummint troops against the wily armed populace) is probably the least likely scenario.

And I'm not so sure that some folks who want to be ready to shoot it out with police/military ala Waco, can actually tell a Girl Scout uniform from an Army one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Speaking of the futility of armed resistance against the mighty mighty US government, how did that whole Vietnam thing work out again?

Interesting question. I sometimes wonder that we (i.e., the U.S.) so misunderestimated the Viet Cong, given that a key chapter early in our own history was besting, sometimes guerrilla style, a far more powerful foe.

Of course, the experience of the American revolutionaries and the Viet Cong does make me wonder if arms alone can account for victory, since both groups were seriously outgunned.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: New NRA Prez Jim Porter Stoking New Civil War (VIDEO) - 5/4/2013 10:49:30 PM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman
Attrition and numbers will be what matters in the end. There are simply more armed individuals in the US than there are police and military. I keep hearing about F-15s, tanks, and drones, but that's ignoring the fact that it requires personnel to operate and maintain them. Live, rested, protected personnel. They can't do their jobs if they're dead, wounded, or spending so much time fighting off pinprick attacks.

Couple that with the psychic shock of going to war in their own hometowns and you get the idea that there's a very real and chilling agenda about why the government wants to disarm the population. And don't start telling me about how ineffective we'd be up against "real" soldiers. I was one of those "real" soldiers, and I am fully aware that if lead starts flying, I'd almost assuredly not see the end of it. I am content with that outcome, because I am very confident that I will take at least one or two with me. That's the attrition part of the equation. There are around 20 million shooters in the United States. True, not all of them are going to rebel, but even a fraction could wreak holy hell on this country where it's truly weakest: at home.

There are only about 2.2 million personnel in the entire armed forces of the United States. Add in maybe another million or so law enforcement (DHS, HSA, state and local PDs). Three million against twenty million are not good odds, even with tanks, planes, and drones. And it wouldn't be a set-piece battle, either. Think snipers and ambushes more than Kursks and Alameins. I'm sure there are some commanders who'd try, and they'd eventually find themselves in a hopeless quagmire of defending the Union from within and without.

And don't forget the fact that there are opportunists in this world that would love nothing better than to see the US government fail. There are something like 100 million AKs of various stripes in circulation and megatons of military stores that could see these shores, especially during a nationwide insurrection. Another major problem they will face will be the noncombatants who cannot or will not take up arms for either side, but rather will stand by and wait for the outcome. With infrastructures compromised, they will be another drain on their resources, lest they become hostiles themselves.

That is what can happen if this government goes over the "fascist deep end", and neither side wants that. Yet.


Thank you for that excellent post. Even though General Yamamoto never said "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" he did once say "The fiercest serpent may be overcome by a swarm of ants". Every time this topic comes up these half wits get this image of that lone Chinese guy standing in fronts of the tanks in Tiananmen Square. The government wants our arms because they know that facing off against the armed citizenry of the United States would make Southeast Asia look like a walk in the park.

_____________________________

While is there no liberal talk radio? There are at least five conservative talk radio shows available over the air every day in the radio market I live in. Why does the liberal message fail to attract listeners?

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: New NRA Prez Jim Porter Stoking New Civil War (VIDEO) - 5/5/2013 12:03:14 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
Where did they find the troglodyte in the video? Or was he dug up in some archaeological site?

Is that incoherent moron who seems to stumble pronouncing any word of two syllables or more, really the President of NRA? He seems to be still living in the Civil War era, about a century and a half ago. Hasn't any one told him his side lost?

Mind you the image of him, armed to the teeth and clad in camo drag, standing with his rifle single-handedly defending "everah' natrcheral-born Amerikan (col'rrrrds need not apply) Chreeschun from teeee-ranneee and 'fake Presidents'" is amusing even if it's rather cliched. I almost feel sorry for him - people who have outlived their time by c150 years are a tad pitiable. The poor man must be having conniptions now that there's a black man in the White House.

Isn't there an award somewhere for discovering living fossils?

_____________________________



(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: New NRA Prez Jim Porter Stoking New Civil War (VIDEO) - 5/5/2013 5:36:36 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Wow. Attack the person, insult him, ridicule his Southern accent...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Isn't there an award somewhere for discovering living fossils?

No, but I think you're in the running for a different one.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/5/2013 5:56:11 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: New NRA Prez Jim Porter Stoking New Civil War (VIDEO) - 5/5/2013 5:47:46 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Where did they find the troglodyte in the video? Or was he dug up in some archaeological site?
Is that incoherent moron who seems to stumble pronouncing any word of two syllables or more, really the President of NRA? He seems to be still living in the Civil War era, about a century and a half ago. Hasn't any one told him his side lost?
Mind you the image of him, armed to the teeth and clad in camo drag, standing with his rifle single-handedly defending "everah' natrcheral-born Amerikan (col'rrrrds need not apply) Chreeschun from teeee-ranneee and 'fake Presidents'" is amusing even if it's rather cliched. I almost feel sorry for him - people who have outlived their time by c150 years are a tad pitiable. The poor man must be having conniptions now that there's a black man in the White House.
Isn't there an award somewhere for discovering living fossils?


You sure did inject some major racism in there where there wasn't any. At no point in time did he say he could single-handedly do anything (which, btw, is why it's better to have a lot more people with a lot more guns; there may be a "Rambo" within the citizenry, but a lone gunman, no matter how well armed, is truly only going to be able to take down a well armed and well trained military in the dreams of Hollywood.

While the analogy is far from perfect and accurate, the general idea is that Americans have stood up to tyranny from their government before (the changes in transportation ability and communications significantly alter the equating of the American Revolution to the present).

Think about what would happen in Australia if your national government were to go all "Big Brother" on you, or a military dictatorship were to stage a coup and win? In those cases of tyranny, or impending tyranny, would you rather the Citizens be mostly armed and have at least a modicum of training, or for the Citizens to be mostly disarmed?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: New NRA Prez Jim Porter Stoking New Civil War (VIDEO) - 5/5/2013 7:01:53 PM   
TricklessMagic


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
Status: offline
Sshhh no, no, surrender to the state. No more individualism. No more ambition or exceptionalism. It offends the weaker and useless who generate nothing but like parasites seek to consume everything. It has to be collectivism regardless of how that is achieved or what it results in. No self-defense, no inalienable right to liberty and freedom, no right private property. Bend over for the "state", enslave yourself to the state, let the state persecute you, it knows what is best.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 27
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