quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Living in massive solar project USA, instead of press-release delusionland, it ain't all some would have you believe.
I'll have to see about some posting some pics from the dust storm a couple weeks ago. Thousands of acres scraped completely bare sure didn't help conditions, and I'm hearing that the panels at the operational sites didn't take their sandblast test very well at all.
There will be giant scandals over how some of these companies have gone about their business, with taxpayer money footing the bill.
And no, Hill. The majority of the jobs are monkeywork, done with human backs, an alignment tool, and a wrench.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
It's interesting that some of the same folks who were talking about how the keystone XL pipeline constrution will bring JOBS are pooh poohing similar jobs (construction) that will last more than the year or 2 that pipeline construction would.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
It's interesting that some of the same folks who were talking about how the keystone XL pipeline constrution will bring JOBS are pooh poohing similar jobs (construction) that will last more than the year or 2 that pipeline construction would.

Won't Keystone create more permanent jobs? And, you are also talking about one project (Keystone) compared to a sector (solar power). If you want to go straight up # of jobs solely, wouldn't it be better to invest in projects that will require more upkeep? One of the beautiful things of solar and wind is the relative reduction in maintenance requirements. Once you have solar installed, how many of those jobs are going to continue?

To give an extreme hypothetical, what would happen to the current power generation sector if everyone in the US were to make renewable energy investments that allowed their power requirements to be 50% self-provided? Sure, we could sell export some power, but what happens to those workers. We won't be able to export all our power generation, especially if every country is making the same push we did. There will be continued consumption as manufacturing for darn near anything isn't perfect, and shit happens (that damn "Mayhem" guy could land on a panel or installation), so there will be maintenance costs/jobs. But, they won't be as prevalent. What then?

Doing this as a governmental mandate will result in Market failures. Allowing the Market to take care of things won't tend to be as fast, but the end results will be better. The ex and I had a house built for us in 2006. You know, pre-recession. One factor in the property location was the orientation of the property and how it impacted the orientation of the house. We could have had the house face north, or east. We decided on North, in part, so that the South side roof would be less broken up to allow for a larger solar panel installation when we could afford it. Oddly enough, I had been looking into solar installation back in the 90's, prior to Big Al's GW rantings. I didn't look into it for any other reason than to reduce the cost of power for me/my family. If everyone were to do that, wouldn't the solar sector grow? Wouldn't there be an increase in investment and other spending to grow the sector and improve the tech? As more and more people added solar, power would get cheaper and cheaper, leaving more money for other stuff. And, growth would be slower, so the impact on current power generation would also change gradually, causing a lot less pain along the way.

But, grab the sledge of government and start hammering.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
WHEN, not if they build the Keystone XL, the jobs are primarily temporary and in construction. When it's done, they're gone (kinda like the stimulus).
The Keystone XL will then transport oil to Houston just like the existing Keystone.
From Houston, the product will primarily be exported, not used in the US (refined petroleum is this country's biggest export).
The only permanent jobs the Keystone XL will produce will be a few maintenance positions and of course Exxon/Mobile and BP will require the services of a few more tax attorneys and clerks to count all the money.

quote:

As for your extreme example, if every country made the same push we did, our #1 export wouldn't be petroleum products.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Actually going to be more like hundreds of permanent jobs for maintenance.



What about the jobs, though?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

As a percentage of cost......how much is oil subsidized? I would just like to know... I know it is, and I have seen the raw numbers, but oil is massive, so I would like to know how it works out as a percentage. The alternative energies are somewhere in the neighborhood of a minimum of 30-40%, that is pretty substantial. If it is the same, then so be it, if not, there is a really issue associated with the numbers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

That is a fair statement, but until AE reaches economic parity it will remain a charity case to be supported if you wan to keep those jobs. I hope the gamble pays off, it would benefit me personally, but it has been many years and much of that money ends up flowing to China. Considering they dump cheap solar all over the market and the subsidies are not exclusive to US product.