Legalize? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Legalize?


Legalize it, period.
  73% (28)
It should be illegal.
  7% (3)
Legalize for personal use only.
  7% (3)
Pass it, Bogart.
  10% (4)


Total Votes : 38
(last vote on : 4/23/2013 3:37:19 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

Level -> Legalize? (4/20/2013 4:54:42 PM)

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/opinion/reiman-marijuana-day/index.html?c=us

Today is 4/20, a day to tell your buds "hi!".

But not all states want that; what do you think?



DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 5:15:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/opinion/reiman-marijuana-day/index.html?c=us
Today is 4/20, a day to tell your buds "hi!".
But not all states want that; what do you think?


Legalize it. Find a way to distribute, regulate, and tax it.

Then, set up the system to include the rest of the, currently illegal, illicit drugs.



Level -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 5:23:03 PM)

Hey DS.

It'd get some people out of jail, too; hopefully alleviating overcrowding, which could help keep some bad guys in jail longer.

Do you worry about making the harder stuff legal at all?



TheHeretic -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 5:24:09 PM)

I just need to run down to the store for M&Ms and beef jerky, right quick.



Level -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 5:26:05 PM)

[:D]



Kirata -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 5:26:39 PM)


Unh, you have legalize it period, and legalize it for personal use only.

What would constitute "impersonal" use?

K.



Level -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 5:32:05 PM)

I was trying to think of a way to phrase that; personal being for individual use, smaller amounts, and "period" being able to grow your own, which generally involves larger amounts.



muhly22222 -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 7:06:46 PM)

FR

Legalize it. Then regulate and tax it.

The benefits: money coming in from "sin tax" (like alcohol and tobacco), and less money going out (fewer prosecutions and jail sentences). It also gives law enforcement, including prosecutors, more time to focus on more serious crimes.

With that being said, I'm still ok with there being a crime for selling without a license/permit (like there is with liquor in my state), or for driving under the influence.



erieangel -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 7:13:59 PM)

Can you imagine the taxes the government could put on pot and people would still buy it?

Smokers (like me) complain every time there is a new cigarette tax, but a lot of us keep smoking. And Obama wants to add another $.09 to a pack.

Even without a high tax, legal pot will help all local, state and the federal budget.






DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 7:39:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Hey DS.
It'd get some people out of jail, too; hopefully alleviating overcrowding, which could help keep some bad guys in jail longer.
Do you worry about making the harder stuff legal at all?


I'm not exactly sure what you're asking me. If you're asking me if I'm worried at all about what happens once the harder stuff is legalized, no. I take a long run view of it, though. It'll likely be a bit chaotic initially, but the novelty of taking the harder stuff will wear off, though. Tax the shit out of it and use those taxes to fund rehab.



erieangel -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 7:42:23 PM)

That doesn't make since. Taxes already fund rehab and all of it is illegal.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 7:48:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
Can you imagine the taxes the government could put on pot and people would still buy it?
Smokers (like me) complain every time there is a new cigarette tax, but a lot of us keep smoking. And Obama wants to add another $.09 to a pack.
Even without a high tax, legal pot will help all local, state and the federal budget.


Isn't it $0.94 per pack?



Kirata -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 7:49:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222

I'm still ok with there being a crime... for driving under the influence.

Medical Marijuana Laws, Traffic Fatalities, and Alcohol Consumption
    Using data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) for the period 1990-2009, we find that traffic fatalities fall by nearly 9 percent after the legalization of medical marijuana
Marijuana use had little effect on simulated driving skills, according to a Hartford Hospital study
    Marijuana use had little effect on simulated driving skills
Psychomotor Impairing Effects Of Cannabis Are Nominal In Experienced Users
    "THC did not affect performance of heavy cannabis users in the critical tracking task, the stop-signal task, and the Tower of London," authors wrote. "These tasks have previously been shown to be very sensitive to the impairing potential of THC when administered to infrequent cannabis (users). The lack of THC [effect] on these tasks basically confirms the previous notions that heavy cannabis users can develop tolerance to behaviorally impairing effects of THC."
Marijuana and Actual Driving Performance, USDOT
    The foremost impression one gains from reviewing the literature is that no clear relationship has ever been demonstrated between marijuana smoking and either seriously impaired driving performance or the risk of accident involvement... Very importantly our city driving study showed that drivers who drank alcohol overestimated their performance quality whereas those who smoked marijuana underestimated it. Perhaps as a consequence, the former invested no special effort for accomplishing the task whereas the latter did, and successfully.
K.



Aylee -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 8:05:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222

I'm still ok with there being a crime... for driving under the influence.

Medical Marijuana Laws, Traffic Fatalities, and Alcohol Consumption
    Using data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) for the period 1990-2009, we find that traffic fatalities fall by nearly 9 percent after the legalization of medical marijuana
Marijuana use had little effect on simulated driving skills, according to a Hartford Hospital study
    Marijuana use had little effect on simulated driving skills
Psychomotor Impairing Effects Of Cannabis Are Nominal In Experienced Users
    "THC did not affect performance of heavy cannabis users in the critical tracking task, the stop-signal task, and the Tower of London," authors wrote. "These tasks have previously been shown to be very sensitive to the impairing potential of THC when administered to infrequent cannabis (users). The lack of THC [effect] on these tasks basically confirms the previous notions that heavy cannabis users can develop tolerance to behaviorally impairing effects of THC."
Marijuana and Actual Driving Performance, USDOT
    The foremost impression one gains from reviewing the literature is that no clear relationship has ever been demonstrated between marijuana smoking and either seriously impaired driving performance or the risk of accident involvement... Very importantly our city driving study showed that drivers who drank alcohol overestimated their performance quality whereas those who smoked marijuana underestimated it. Perhaps as a consequence, the former invested no special effort for accomplishing the task whereas the latter did, and successfully.
K.



I do not really care to go through all of those links right now, but it was my understanding that the influence of Mary Jane on driving skills was effected by how new the person was to smoking pot.

Unfortunately I cannot think of any way to TEST for it in driving cases. Of course, just throwing out the DUI laws would clear this up in a hurry.



Kirata -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 8:26:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

it was my understanding that the influence of Mary Jane on driving skills was effected by how new the person was to smoking pot.

True with regard to all skills. Third link.

K.







LizDeluxe -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 9:08:09 PM)

I voted to legalize it, period. I can't see any rational reason for pot to be illegal while alcohol is legal. I'm not interested in pot but I think it should be legal. I'm not sure I get the whole "tax the shit out of it" mentality. People have been either buying it illegally or growing it themselves for decades. They're just going to stop doing that and buy government joints particularly if they are more expensive because they taxed the shit out of them? Somehow I don't see that happening.

Extending legalization to harder drugs is just an all around bad idea, in my opinion. Once you get past pot, legalization just solves the drug crime problem (for the most part). It doesn't deal with the drug problem - it only makes it worse if anything. I guess taxing it to fund rehab is one strategy if you like solving one problem to create another.



MasterCaneman -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 9:14:34 PM)

Heyyyyyy....



[image]local://upfiles/1614272/6450CAB99D8B4B1FBDA34B097B74F4E1.jpg[/image]



Powergamz1 -> RE: Legalize? (4/20/2013 9:23:28 PM)

Weed Cards for all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRm1yqSmsGY



DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 5:20:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe
I voted to legalize it, period. I can't see any rational reason for pot to be illegal while alcohol is legal. I'm not interested in pot but I think it should be legal. I'm not sure I get the whole "tax the shit out of it" mentality. People have been either buying it illegally or growing it themselves for decades. They're just going to stop doing that and buy government joints particularly if they are more expensive because they taxed the shit out of them? Somehow I don't see that happening.
Extending legalization to harder drugs is just an all around bad idea, in my opinion. Once you get past pot, legalization just solves the drug crime problem (for the most part). It doesn't deal with the drug problem - it only makes it worse if anything. I guess taxing it to fund rehab is one strategy if you like solving one problem to create another.


The entire legalization process might allow the actual price of marijuana to drop below what it is now (even after taxing the shit out of it). The current price isn't just the cost of growing the plant and the processing. It's not the same as growing a legal crop. You have other impacts on cost, like securing your operation, guarding your operation and the risks involved in the sourcing to selling business is also part of that price.

State and Local Alcohol Taxes

2010 the amount of money taken in the US for State and Local Alcohol Taxes was just over $6B.

Federal Tax Rates on Alcohol
  • $0.02-0.05/ 12 oz can of beer
  • $0.21-0.67/ 750 ml bottle ($0.04/ 750 ml of hard cider)
  • $13.50/ Proof Gallon** ($2.14/ 750 ml bottle at 80 proof)

**A proof gallon is a gallon of liquid that is 100 proof, or 50% alcohol. The tax is adjusted, depending on the percentage of alcohol of the product.

Considering the economy of mass production, even with the taxes levied on alcohol, it's still generally more expensive (especially if you consider the time involved) to produce your own alcoholic beverages in your own home.

In the short term, legalizing hard drugs will have bad results. But, that's due to simply lifting the restrictions and making it easier to get. For some people, easy access will cause in increase in use, but that will wane as they come to realize that access isn't going to be restricted like it used to be. People will be able to "medicate" at lower levels of ingestion because it won't be illegal to use and have. Putting the taxes towards rehab for those that want it will help defray that cost.



Level -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 5:39:06 AM)

If they did legalize harder drugs (and I'm not at all convinced that's a good idea), I would want harsh sentences for anyone harming anyone else while high.



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