RE: Legalize?

RE: Legalize? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

[Poll]

Legalize?

Legalize it, period.

73% (28)

It should be illegal.

7% (3)

Legalize for personal use only.

7% (3)

Pass it, Bogart.

10% (4)

Total Votes : 38

(last vote on : 4/23/2013 3:37:19 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:05:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level If they did legalize harder drugs (and I'm not at all convinced that's a good idea), I would want harsh sentences for anyone harming anyone else while high. No disagreement with the harsh sentencing.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:13:45 AM)
I think I have to disagree, Level and DS. To me, it's tantamount to "hate crimes" legislation. If I get high (and I don't) and I smash you on the head and bust your skull, does it matter that I was high? I don't think so. What matters is that I busted your skull. But, here's where the rub is: We would have to "re-think" the whole diminished capacity defense. To my mind, that would no longer be a mitigating circumstance. Your dumb ass chose to get high, your dumb ass can deal with the ramifications of what you do, while you're high (this includes alcohol, also, by the way). That's where we're going to run into some interesting times (even if it's just marijuana that gets legalized). Peace and comfort, Michael

lilcracker -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:19:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Unh, you have legalize it period, and legalize it for personal use only. What would constitute "impersonal" use? K. It can be used for many different reasons other than personal use.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:27:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I think I have to disagree, Level and DS. To me, it's tantamount to "hate crimes" legislation. If I get high (and I don't) and I smash you on the head and bust your skull, does it matter that I was high? I don't think so. What matters is that I busted your skull. But, here's where the rub is: We would have to "re-think" the whole diminished capacity defense. To my mind, that would no longer be a mitigating circumstance. Your dumb ass chose to get high, your dumb ass can deal with the ramifications of what you do, while you're high (this includes alcohol, also, by the way). That's where we're going to run into some interesting times (even if it's just marijuana that gets legalized). Peace and comfort, Michael It wouldn't be that the penalty would be for being high and doing something, it would be for the something with an additional penalty for being high while doing it. It would be like the increased penalty for committing a heist with a gun compared to not using a gun.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:30:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri It wouldn't be that the penalty would be for being high and doing something, it would be for the something with an additional penalty for being high while doing it. It would be like the increased penalty for committing a heist with a gun compared to not using a gun. Just like "hate crimes" legislations are penalties on top of whatever original crime one commits. One murder is no better or worse than the next nor is one assault, etc. A crime is a crime and other than proving a motive in court, I don't care why you did it. You did it. Go to jail. Peace and comfort, Michael

Level -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:32:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I think I have to disagree, Level and DS. To me, it's tantamount to "hate crimes" legislation. If I get high (and I don't) and I smash you on the head and bust your skull, does it matter that I was high? I don't think so. What matters is that I busted your skull. But, here's where the rub is: We would have to "re-think" the whole diminished capacity defense. To my mind, that would no longer be a mitigating circumstance. Your dumb ass chose to get high, your dumb ass can deal with the ramifications of what you do, while you're high (this includes alcohol, also, by the way). That's where we're going to run into some interesting times (even if it's just marijuana that gets legalized). Peace and comfort, Michael Hey Michael. Hmm, I would certainly argue against allowing someone commiting a crime while high to be able to use diminished capacity as a defense; to me, that should be reserved for those with a mental illness, something they have no control over.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:35:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Hey Michael. Hmm, I would certainly argue against allowing someone commiting a crime while high to be able to use diminished capacity as a defense; to me, that should be reserved for those with a mental illness, something they have no control over. That's a seperate defense known as "Mental disease or defect". I have some issues with the liberal way that is applied also but there's a specific "diminished capacity" defense that would have to be thrown out (in my mind) with the rare exception of someone truly being dosed without their own knowledge. Peace and comfort, Michael

Level -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:39:14 AM)
Good point about them being slipped drugs unwillingly. That might be tough to prove though, unless the "doser" came forward and confessed.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:49:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri It wouldn't be that the penalty would be for being high and doing something, it would be for the something with an additional penalty for being high while doing it. It would be like the increased penalty for committing a heist with a gun compared to not using a gun. Just like "hate crimes" legislations are penalties on top of whatever original crime one commits. One murder is no better or worse than the next nor is one assault, etc. A crime is a crime and other than proving a motive in court, I don't care why you did it. You did it. Go to jail. Peace and comfort, Michael You're equating a murder, with a murder committed while high, and a murder committed due to discrimination? While a murder definitely is a murder, the fact that racial/ethnic discrimination was at it's root also deserves to be penalized. It would be like a separate charge.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 6:54:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri You're equating a murder, with a murder committed while high, and a murder committed due to discrimination? While a murder definitely is a murder, the fact that racial/ethnic discrimination was at it's root also deserves to be penalized. It would be like a separate charge. Then, clearly, we disagree. I don't care why a murderer kills someone (except for the ability to prove a motive). Their victim is just as dead. It doesn't matter why they did it. But, to bring us back on topic, that's my point for not having stiffer penalties for someone being high. You commit a crime, you're guilty. I don't care if you're high, wanting to get high, or as sober as a judge. You committed a crime. By having "high penalties" what you're doing is "legalizing" the drugs, marginally. It's legal but, if you break a law, we're gonna punish you even more than we would someone who isn't high. It's discrimination (and possibly not true legalization). Peace and comfort, Michael

DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 9:10:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri You're equating a murder, with a murder committed while high, and a murder committed due to discrimination? While a murder definitely is a murder, the fact that racial/ethnic discrimination was at it's root also deserves to be penalized. It would be like a separate charge. Then, clearly, we disagree. I don't care why a murderer kills someone (except for the ability to prove a motive). Their victim is just as dead. It doesn't matter why they did it. But, to bring us back on topic, that's my point for not having stiffer penalties for someone being high. You commit a crime, you're guilty. I don't care if you're high, wanting to get high, or as sober as a judge. You committed a crime. By having "high penalties" what you're doing is "legalizing" the drugs, marginally. It's legal but, if you break a law, we're gonna punish you even more than we would someone who isn't high. It's discrimination (and possibly not true legalization). Peace and comfort, Michael I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I appreciate that you are doing so in quite a civilized manner. Having harsher punishments for a "high" murder isn't changing the guilt of the murder charge. It does, however, give an incentive for people to responsibly use marijuana. That's, IMO, the point.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 10:04:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I appreciate that you are doing so in quite a civilized manner. Having harsher punishments for a "high" murder isn't changing the guilt of the murder charge. It does, however, give an incentive for people to responsibly use marijuana. That's, IMO, the point. Of course I'm doing it in a civilized manner. Neither of us are the type to get butt-hurt when someone disagrees or start screaming "RACIST!" at each other but, if you'll allow me to "use" you as an example ... You're gay and you want to marry your partner. Right now, that's not legal. You protest. You propose new legislation, etc. Finally, the government says: "Okay, we're going to let you get married" (Translate to: "We're gonna let you smoke pot"). Sounds great? Good. Oh, by the way, if you have sex with anyone but your partner, we're going to fine you $5,000 and put you in jail for 60 days. (Translate to: "If you steal a HERSHEY™© bar while you're high, we're going to fine you and put you in jail for 60 days"). At best, it's a hurdle to true legalization. At worst, it's discrimination against people who are engaging in a legal activity (smoking weed or marrying same sex partners, in these examples). Peace and comfort, Michael

DesideriScuri -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 11:02:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I appreciate that you are doing so in quite a civilized manner. Having harsher punishments for a "high" murder isn't changing the guilt of the murder charge. It does, however, give an incentive for people to responsibly use marijuana. That's, IMO, the point. Of course I'm doing it in a civilized manner. Neither of us are the type to get butt-hurt when someone disagrees or start screaming "RACIST!" at each other but, if you'll allow me to "use" you as an example ... You're gay and you want to marry your partner. Right now, that's not legal. You protest. You propose new legislation, etc. Finally, the government says: "Okay, we're going to let you get married" (Translate to: "We're gonna let you smoke pot"). Sounds great? Good. Oh, by the way, if you have sex with anyone but your partner, we're going to fine you $5,000 and put you in jail for 60 days. (Translate to: "If you steal a HERSHEY™© bar while you're high, we're going to fine you and put you in jail for 60 days"). At best, it's a hurdle to true legalization. At worst, it's discrimination against people who are engaging in a legal activity (smoking weed or marrying same sex partners, in these examples). Peace and comfort, Michael Same sex marriage (or homosexuality in general), though, isn't known to impair one's judgement. Pot, however, has that effect, which is why one smokes it. A more apt comparison would be alcohol. With their being no "extra" punishment for committing a crime while drunk, you may have a point. I think it would still fall under the umbrella, like alcohol, of being eligible for DUI/DWI enforcement.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 11:05:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri A more apt comparison would be alcohol. With their being no "extra" punishment for committing a crime while drunk, you may have a point. I think it would still fall under the umbrella, like alcohol, of being eligible for DUI/DWI enforcement. To a point, I'm also against DUI laws (sort of.). It's a story for another thread but, if you start it, I promise to contribute. Peace and comfort, Michael

TheHeretic -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 1:53:40 PM)
FR quote: Legalize for personal use only. 8% (3) I'd like to look at this response for a moment. I interpret "legalize for personal use only" as decriminalization. That's pretty much what we have in California these days. It isn't working very well. Oh yes, those who like to smoke pot are good, but the marketplace is thriving with the money flowing in the shadows. The medical marijuana system here is a joke. Barkers call the "patients" into the plywood clinics of Venice Beach, where people pay from $40-300 dollars to get a magic letter that opens all the doors. One visit to a dispensary (and it's on my errand list incidentally) tells you all you need to know about where the money is going.

Yachtie -> RE: Legalize? (4/21/2013 2:28:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic FR quote: Legalize for personal use only. 8% (3) I'd like to look at this response for a moment. I interpret "legalize for personal use only" as decriminalization. That's pretty much what we have in California these days. It isn't working very well. Oh yes, those who like to smoke pot are good, but the marketplace is thriving with the money flowing in the shadows. The medical marijuana system here is a joke. Barkers call the "patients" into the plywood clinics of Venice Beach, where people pay from $40-300 dollars to get a magic letter that opens all the doors. One visit to a dispensary (and it's on my errand list incidentally) tells you all you need to know about where the money is going. Makes me think of the Speak-Easy of the Roaring 20s, but without Elliot Ness. [8D]

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Spam Policy

0.046875