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I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 7:56:28 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		How did "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens aiding Al Qaeda" in other countries become "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens with in the US border?"

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 8:08:25 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		Easy: The Radicals want to slam him every way possible every chance they can get.

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 8:41:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Based upon an exchange between Holder and Paul.

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 9:05:32 PM   
muhly22222


Posts: 463
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline 		The way I understand it is that Rand Paul wanted to know what limits the President believed existed on his power, and used the appointment of Brennan as CIA Director to inquire into the issue.

He already knew that Obama believed he had authority to order the killing of an American abroad helping terrorist forces. He wanted to know whether the President believed that power extended to U.S. soil as well.

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 9:23:31 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
How did "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens aiding Al Qaeda" in other countries become "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens with in the US border?"

Really? You REALLY don't know the evolution of this?

Some days I just want to abandon all hope. Here ya go. In his own words from his own lips.

Note that we had the exact same question come up with the 2012 NDAA. You can read about that one on Snopes although I find the conclusions they reached... uh... excessively optimistic.

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 9:33:26 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How did "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens aiding Al Qaeda" in other countries become "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens with in the US border?"

Holder wouldn't give Paul a straight answer so Paul filibustered till he got one.

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 10:20:07 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		First of all, the white house statement linked dealt with Gitmo, not the use of drones.

The only authorized use of drones over the US is under the Department of Homeland security and the primary use has been to overfly the border. DHS has, on a number of occasions used the drones to aid local police departments.

As far as outright military operation of drones in hostile actions inside the US borders, the posse comitatus act pretty much takes that authority away from the president, the only military operations that Federal troops can be used for is to patrol the borders, except in the event of a civil war or enemy invasion.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/7/2013 10:24:48 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How did "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens aiding Al Qaeda" in other countries become "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens with in the US border?"



your goiogle is broken again huh?

More Predator drones fly U.S.-Mexico border
By William Booth,December 21, 2011
View Photo Gallery - U.S. increases use of Predator drones on border with Mexico: Unmanned…
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In the dead of night, from a trailer humming with surveillance monitors, a pilot for the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency was remotely flying a Predator drone more than 1,000 miles away.

From an altitude of 15,000 feet, over the desert ranchlands of Arizona, the drone’s all-seeing eyeball swiveled and powerful night-vision infrared cameras zeroed in on a pickup truck rattling along a washboard road.

“Hey, where’s that guy going?” the mission controller asked the drone’s camera operator, who toggled his joystick, glued to the monitors like a teenager with a Christmas morning Xbox.

This is the semi-covert cutting edge of homeland security, where federal law enforcement authorities are rapidly expanding a military-style unmanned aerial reconnaissance operation along the U.S.-Mexico border — a region that privacy watchdogs say includes a lot of American back yards.

Fans of the Predators say the $20 million aircraft are a perfect platform to keep a watchful eye on America’s rugged borders, but critics say the drones are expensive, invasive and finicky toys that have done little — compared with what Border Patrol agents do on the ground — to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, drug smugglers or terrorists.

Over Arizona, the Predator circled a ranch, as unseen and silent as a hunting owl. On a bank of computer screens, the monitoring team watched the truck, which appeared in ghostly infrared black and white, turn and pull up by a mobile home. In the yard, three sleeping dogs

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/8/2013 3:32:59 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How did "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens aiding Al Qaeda" in other countries become "Obama has the authority to authorize drone strikes against American citizens with in the US border?"

Holder wouldn't give Paul a straight answer so Paul filibustered till he got one.


You think that was the reason Paul went on for 13 hours then ?

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/8/2013 5:45:38 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
First of all, the white house statement linked dealt with Gitmo, not the use of drones.

It dealt with Obama saying flat out that "due process" was inconvenient sometimes so he was OK with skipping over the legal niceties. Then when you ponder his careful silence regarding the 2012 NDAA... well....

quote:

The only authorized use of drones over the US is under the Department of Homeland security and the primary use has been to overfly the border. DHS has, on a number of occasions used the drones to aid local police departments.

You believe that? Really? You do understand, right, that 80% of the US population lives in a border zone (think any international airport). I agree that so far there have been no "drone assassinations". But it's pretty much a given that they are using drones to do domestic spying and are ramping up that capability as quickly as they can.

quote:

As far as outright military operation of drones in hostile actions inside the US borders, the posse comitatus act pretty much takes that authority away from the president, the only military operations that Federal troops can be used for is to patrol the borders, except in the event of a civil war or enemy invasion.

Well yes. But that would depend on a president who was lawful, wouldn't it? That's exactly what was being questioned here. In short, I don't think he has the power to do the things he's doing. Yet he does them anyway and he's planning on doing more. I'm glad these questions are being asked. I doubt they will get answered but the deafening silence speaks for itself.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: I have to ask... - 3/8/2013 6:12:54 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I have come up with a new way to make some extra cash. I am going to set up a blog so that I get paid for posting this type of crap.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: I have to ask... - 3/8/2013 6:31:45 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		First, that isn't what posse comitatus prevents.

Second, any President could order drones operated by civilians, or place military personnel into a 'joint operation' ala Waco... or simply ignore posse comitatus all together.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

First of all, the white house statement linked dealt with Gitmo, not the use of drones.

The only authorized use of drones over the US is under the Department of Homeland security and the primary use has been to overfly the border. DHS has, on a number of occasions used the drones to aid local police departments.

As far as outright military operation of drones in hostile actions inside the US borders, the posse comitatus act pretty much takes that authority away from the president, the only military operations that Federal troops can be used for is to patrol the borders, except in the event of a civil war or enemy invasion.



< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 3/8/2013 6:33:26 AM >

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/8/2013 10:13:02 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		See the GOP created that loophole for Bush/Cheney and it has been in effect for over 10 years, but only now it is being questioned cause they lost the last election.

I do not believe a President such as Obama would abuse this law, but there have been people in office who have no regard for the law....like Cheney....so it is an issue, but seems odd the GOP never had a problem with this when they owned the White House

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/8/2013 10:16:29 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		That would be true of most of the GOP but Paul is different animal

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RE: I have to ask... - 3/8/2013 11:24:15 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
I do not believe a President such as Obama would abuse this law, but there have been people in office who have no regard for the law....like Cheney....so it is an issue, but seems odd the GOP never had a problem with this when they owned the White House

You don't? You don't believe Obama would abuse this law even though he has consistently pushed to expand these sorts of powers? Given that ANY exercise of these powers can be seen as treason and therefor abusive can you explain why he has championed them so thoroughly?

And yes, Paul is about as much a republican as I am a democrat.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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