Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (Full Version)

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outlier -> Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 5:33:10 PM)

I heard this and did a double take. 

Here is the opinion of someone much more knowledgeable
than I am about it writing in The NY Times: How Wrestling Lost The Olympics

I also confess that I hope Hillwilliam will make a contribution
and I can learn more.  And/Or enjoy the rant if he chooses to vent.





TheHeretic -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 5:56:52 PM)

Thanks for the link. I saw the headline about this, but hadn't gone any further. It's nice to know this isn't a done deal yet.

Let's just hope Vince McMahon doesn't get involved in the effort to save it.

Or maybe he should. Steel chairs would certainly up the entertainment value. [:D]




Level -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 6:23:49 PM)

Wrestling is one of the foundations of the Olympics, unlike ping pong, or ice curling.

Bad move.




OsideGirl -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 7:02:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Wrestling is one of the foundations of the Olympics, unlike ping pong, or ice curling.

Bad move.


I thought exactly the same thing. It's one of the original Olympic sports, as in 3000 years ago original sports.




TheHeretic -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 7:23:20 PM)

Have they dumped any of the other sports, from the original Greek games?




OsideGirl -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 7:27:30 PM)

It appears that only Pankration has been dropped:

www.olympic.org



quote:

Pankration
This was a primitive form of martial art combining wrestling and boxing, and was considered to be one of the toughest sports. Greeks believed that it was founded by Theseus when he defeated the fierce Minotaur in the labyrinth.


But, other versions of martial arts are included in the Olympic games.




PeonForHer -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 7:39:00 PM)

I'm a bit baffled by this. Even when it's hammed up for entertainment, it's still a highly skilled sport. But, from your link, it seems that the standard rules of wrestling are to blame. Judo was formed partly so that it would work well as a sport; I don't see why wrestling can't be modified similarly.




TheHeretic -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/17/2013 9:17:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

It appears that only Pankration has been dropped:





Thanks. Sounds like a politically incorrect version of cage fighting

quote:

Pankration, as practiced in historical antiquity, was an athletic event that combined techniques of both boxing (pygmē/pygmachia – πυγμή/πυγμαχία) and wrestling (palē – πάλη), as well as additional elements, such as the use of strikes with the lower extremities, to create a broad fighting sport very similar to today's mixed martial arts competitions. There is evidence that, although knockouts were common, most pankration competitions were probably decided on the ground where both striking and submission techniques would freely come into play. Pankratiasts were highly skilled grapplers and were extremely effective in applying a variety of takedowns, chokes and joint locks. In extreme cases a pankration competition could even result in the death of one of the opponents, which was considered a win


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration







Hillwilliam -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 6:03:44 AM)

I thought it was particulatly interesting that Modern Pentathlon was kept and golf added.

The olympics is supposed to be the pinnacle of sport. It's supposed to be the ultimate dream of an athlete's lifetime. How many golfers do you know who would trade 5 olympic medals for just one Green Jacket?

The IOC has, for decades, been more corrupt than a typical third world government.
They said it was about attendance which seems strange as when I went to Atlanta in 96, I couldn't even get tickets for a practice session. The only tougher ticket in town was the Dream Team. I did manage to score a ticket from a scalper for the medal round in freestyle.

By contrast, the last day I was there, I had tickets for track and field. The venue was about 2/3 full.
I call bullshit on that argugent.

They said it was about drug testing. 4 wrestlers have been stripped of medals for testing positive in the modern era. This is about the same number as equestrian. (speaking of which, why the fuck is that even in the olympics in the first place if you want to talk popularity, participation and attendance).
Compare that to 13 in weightlifting and 19 for track and field so Im not buying that argument either.

The IOC is and has been a corrupt organization to its core and the bottom line is that not enough palms were greased or they weren't greased with enough $$$.




TheHeretic -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 6:50:22 AM)

So, not just a homophobia thing, then?




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 7:11:39 AM)

I like HW's rant - it's pretty spot-on IMHO.

From my own PoV, wrestling is just far too hammed-up to be a decent olympic 'sport' these days.
It's no longer a real competition - it's all showmanship and choreographed moves.


I can remember the good old days when I used to watch wrestling on TV on a Saturday afternoon.
It was all good fun and really entertaining to watch.

However, I managed to get tickets to a grudge match between Les Kellet and Mick McManus.
It was well-known there was no love lost between those two wrestlers.
The match was completely different to what we usually watched on the TV.
The moves were menacing, dangerous, and the showmanship wasn't so prevalent either.
It was a true man-against-man wrestling match.
And the blood was real too.

I haven't watched it for years because it's just choreographed for the TV audience.
It's not true wrestling like the old days or like those of the ancient greeks.


If wrestling were to remain in the olympics, it has to be a true sport and none of this namby-pamby showmanship where the final outcome is almost pre-ordained and decided before they even step into the ring.






Hillwilliam -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 7:17:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I like HW's rant - it's pretty spot-on IMHO.

From my own PoV, wrestling is just far too hammed-up to be a decent olympic 'sport' these days.
It's no longer a real competition - it's all showmanship and choreographed moves.


I can remember the good old days when I used to watch wrestling on TV on a Saturday afternoon.
It was all good fun and really entertaining to watch.

However, I managed to get tickets to a grudge match between Les Kellet and Mick McManus.
It was well-known there was no love lost between those two wrestlers.
The match was completely different to what we usually watched on the TV.
The moves were menacing, dangerous, and the showmanship wasn't so prevalent either.
It was a true man-against-man wrestling match.
And the blood was real too.

I haven't watched it for years because it's just choreographed for the TV audience.
It's not true wrestling like the old days or like those of the ancient greeks.


If wrestling were to remain in the olympics, it has to be a true sport and none of this namby-pamby showmanship where the final outcome is almost pre-ordained and decided before they even step into the ring.




What you have described isn't wrestling by any stretch of the imagination. Think MMA without most of the strikes. The blood and broken bones are VERY real.
Here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2RWFVmSqg One of the weight classes I competed in early on but I was mostly 68Kg.

As for "the blood was real" some of it was. The so called 'pros' also used to hide razor blades in the ring to make a small cut right at the hairline to really get the crowd going but as I said, that isn't Freestyle, Greco Roman or Sambo.




MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 3:08:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I like HW's rant - it's pretty spot-on IMHO.

From my own PoV, wrestling is just far too hammed-up to be a decent olympic 'sport' these days.
It's no longer a real competition - it's all showmanship and choreographed moves.


I can remember the good old days when I used to watch wrestling on TV on a Saturday afternoon.
It was all good fun and really entertaining to watch.

However, I managed to get tickets to a grudge match between Les Kellet and Mick McManus.
It was well-known there was no love lost between those two wrestlers.
The match was completely different to what we usually watched on the TV.
The moves were menacing, dangerous, and the showmanship wasn't so prevalent either.
It was a true man-against-man wrestling match.
And the blood was real too.

I haven't watched it for years because it's just choreographed for the TV audience.
It's not true wrestling like the old days or like those of the ancient greeks.


If wrestling were to remain in the olympics, it has to be a true sport and none of this namby-pamby showmanship where the final outcome is almost pre-ordained and decided before they even step into the ring.





Um...what you are describing is the "for entertainment" WWE Wrestlemania "wrestling"...not the true sport of ROMAN-GRECO WRESTLING which is what the Olympic competitions consist of.


[image]local://upfiles/1495688/CE5B4A0E1C2C4063846866EBA87371AA.jpg[/image]




Level -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 3:31:06 PM)

freedomdwarf, you WERE kidding, right?





DesFIP -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 4:38:01 PM)

My son wrestled in middle school. I have to say that for two years I went to meets and I never understood the rules. There were two kids on the floor and you couldn't really see who was doing what. The most excitement at a meet was when the ref wasn't going to allow a kid to play because his hair was too long. Match stopped while coaches and moms searched for a pair of scissors to trim his bangs.

I still don't understand why that wasn't safe btw.

From a public, tv watching pov, it isn't something that's very understandable. If you shoot a gun and it hits the bullseye, that's apparent to everyone. It needs better press. It needs to be more easily understood by those who are not already aficionados.




Focus50 -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 9:24:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Wrestling is one of the foundations of the Olympics, unlike ping pong, or ice curling.

Bad move.


I think therein lies the problem - "foundation" - traditional; an expectation of participation....

That just maybe the wrestling administrative body has become remiss in failing to grease the wheels of the IOC gravy train.

Fact is the olympics has become choked with every possible idiotic sport that just doesn't belong there. And they all got there by wining and dining ("gifts") the IOC Inc.

If I were running the show, half the sports there (and all specialised team sports) would get punted straight off and who knows, the olympics might actually become affordable to stage (and thus benefit) those outside the world's economic power houses.

Focus.




jlf1961 -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 9:43:33 PM)

I tend to agree with Focus on this.

Among the list for 2016 are golf, table tennis, badminton, just to mention a few that seem a bit weird for the Olympics.

Seriously, Table Tennis?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 9:44:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My son wrestled in middle school. I have to say that for two years I went to meets and I never understood the rules. There were two kids on the floor and you couldn't really see who was doing what. The most excitement at a meet was when the ref wasn't going to allow a kid to play because his hair was too long. Match stopped while coaches and moms searched for a pair of scissors to trim his bangs.

I still don't understand why that wasn't safe btw.

From a public, tv watching pov, it isn't something that's very understandable. If you shoot a gun and it hits the bullseye, that's apparent to everyone. It needs better press. It needs to be more easily understood by those who are not already aficionados.

If somone's hair is too long, it can get caught under a knee or elbow on the mat or in an opponent's head gear and ripped out.




Powergamz1 -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/18/2013 10:25:23 PM)

Approved in the late 70s.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I tend to agree with Focus on this.

Among the list for 2016 are golf, table tennis, badminton, just to mention a few that seem a bit weird for the Olympics.

Seriously, Table Tennis?





descrite -> RE: Olympics to drop Wrestling???? (2/19/2013 12:03:00 AM)

The Olympics is the silliest, most overhyped event in a world where playing silly games captures the attention of the proles in routine fashion. It financially damages every burg it contacts. It celebrates child abuse on a grand scale. White trash use it as a vehicle out of the trailer park, instead of book-learnin' and actual productive effort. It promotes nationalism and totemistic behavior and paegantry and elitism and subsuming the individual for the team and other quasi-fascist antics.

That guy runs fast!

Who gives a fuck?

Had I the money, I would go to Venezuela and create the Total Human Games, where anyone, using any chemical/biological/genetic enhancement could compete openly and freely: we'd see people do the mile in a minute, and we'd see people whose hearts burst on live TV.

It would finally be sports worth watching.

Fuck the Olympics. Fuck them hard, until they die.







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