Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (Full Version)

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Marini -> Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/15/2013 11:28:42 PM)

I recently saw a free documentary called "Food Fight".

This is an excellent short documentary by Chris Taylor, that is very informative, and gives the history about how our food sources and food supplies have been changed and shaped by large agricultural policies/and large agricultural farming policies over the last 75 years or so.

http://www.foodfightthedoc.com/foodfight.html

Here is a trailer from the film: Trailer from Food Fight the documentary

For those interested you can watch it free on hulu.

It really opened up my eyes as to some of the reasons we have so much processed crap/and what has been DONE to most of the fruits/vegetables in the grocery stores these days.

When you open your eyes and realize how much the government has been involved into subsidizing industrial agriculture, which equals promoting/encouraging a lot of the processed foods that we have available and consume, it makes your jaw drop.

We hear a lot about the processed foods, but what about what industrial agriculture has DONE to fruits and vegetables, also?

Some other food for thought is the whole area of "farm subsidies" that taxpayers are subsidizing that make us fatter and unhealthier.

Here is an excellent fairly recent article on farm subsidies.

Scientific America- For a healthier country overhaul farm subsidies

It is great to know that many people are wide awake/waking up to the processed crap that fills our grocery stores and the big link to obesity, diabetes, and all manner of health problems.

I enjoyed a segment of the film in which people had to eat a vegetable from a local grocery store and a vegetable from a sustainable farm, and everyone was amazed at how different they actually tasted.

Having more small and local farms and farmers, having more natural, sustainable and organic based products, and making these foods more available and affordable should be of concern to everyone.

It's odd with all these "programs" aimed at childhood/adult obesity, increased rates of diabetes, and food related diseases, that our government still subsidizes and promotes the manufacturing of all these adulterated food/processed food/and genetically altered vegetables/and fruit that fills our grocery stores.

Big agriculture does not care about quality, taste, or creating healthy foods, their goal is to produce large amounts of food.

Good food should be a right, not just a privilege.
Why isn't this issue a BIG national issue?




Real0ne -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 12:21:17 AM)

that and a lot of issues. in a word americans arent real brite and they have an out of control government that is more interested in extorting money for their corporate pals than keeping you healthy. Whats your bitch anyway? YOu have been perfectly happy with status quo and shuffling crap around now and then as long as I have seen you post here.

besides you got obama care to come to the rescue "right taz!" so who gives shit anyway? LOL

hows that old saying go again? Oh yeh eat shit and die LOL




tazzygirl -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 12:41:53 AM)

quote:

besides you got obama care to come to the rescue "right taz!" so who gives shit anyway? LOL


Well, since you talked me up into this thread. Its not a "rescue" but it is a step in the right direction.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 3:55:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I recently saw a free documentary called "Food Fight".
This is an excellent short documentary by Chris Taylor, that is very informative, and gives the history about how our food sources and food supplies have been changed and shaped by large agricultural policies/and large agricultural farming policies over the last 75 years or so.
http://www.foodfightthedoc.com/foodfight.html
Here is a trailer from the film: Trailer from Food Fight the documentary
For those interested you can watch it free on hulu.
It really opened up my eyes as to some of the reasons we have so much processed crap/and what has been DONE to most of the fruits/vegetables in the grocery stores these days.
When you open your eyes and realize how much the government has been involved into subsidizing industrial agriculture, which equals promoting/encouraging a lot of the processed foods that we have available and consume, it makes your jaw drop.
We hear a lot about the processed foods, but what about what industrial agriculture has DONE to fruits and vegetables, also?
Some other food for thought is the whole area of "farm subsidies" that taxpayers are subsidizing that make us fatter and unhealthier.
Here is an excellent fairly recent article on farm subsidies.
Scientific America- For a healthier country overhaul farm subsidies
It is great to know that many people are wide awake/waking up to the processed crap that fills our grocery stores and the big link to obesity, diabetes, and all manner of health problems.
I enjoyed a segment of the film in which people had to eat a vegetable from a local grocery store and a vegetable from a sustainable farm, and everyone was amazed at how different they actually tasted.
Having more small and local farms and farmers, having more natural, sustainable and organic based products, and making these foods more available and affordable should be of concern to everyone.
It's odd with all these "programs" aimed at childhood/adult obesity, increased rates of diabetes, and food related diseases, that our government still subsidizes and promotes the manufacturing of all these adulterated food/processed food/and genetically altered vegetables/and fruit that fills our grocery stores.
Big agriculture does not care about quality, taste, or creating healthy foods, their goal is to produce large amounts of food.
Good food should be a right, not just a privilege.
Why isn't this issue a BIG national issue?


What is the solution? Buying locally grown? Farmer's Markets? Those are personal choices. Make them yourself. Grow your own food and share. That should easily show the difference between local stuff and the big commercial providers. Raise your own cows. Feed them grass and not corn. Raise your own hogs and/or chickens. Someone is going to have to do that.

And, so we're on the same wavelength, I'm actually looking forward to starting my own garden full of veggies for me to can after harvest so i have access throughout the year. And, I'll be starting some fruit-bearing plants (apples, grapes, blueberries, etc.) for the same purpose. I am going to choose what I plant and might even see if I can save some of my very own seed for the following year. I'm looking into grass-fed local beef and will consider raising my own chickens in the future. I'm not really concerned with pigs because I can live without pork. Bacon and sausage, though, are too damn good to pass on. I'll still rely on others for those products (or the meat that goes into those products). I've often heard that the healthiest way to shop is to stay around the perimeter of a store. The tendency for stores to have all the processed "stuff" in the aisles drives that.




Marini -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 12:23:08 PM)

quote:

What is the solution? Buying locally grown? Farmer's Markets? Those are personal choices. Make them yourself. Grow your own food and share. That should easily show the difference between local stuff and the big commercial providers. Raise your own cows. Feed them grass and not corn. Raise your own hogs and/or chickens. Someone is going to have to do that.

And, so we're on the same wavelength, I'm actually looking forward to starting my own garden full of veggies for me to can after harvest so i have access throughout the year. And, I'll be starting some fruit-bearing plants (apples, grapes, blueberries, etc.) for the same purpose. I am going to choose what I plant and might even see if I can save some of my very own seed for the following year. I'm looking into grass-fed local beef and will consider raising my own chickens in the future. I'm not really concerned with pigs because I can live without pork. Bacon and sausage, though, are too damn good to pass on. I'll still rely on others for those products (or the meat that goes into those products). I've often heard that the healthiest way to shop is to stay around the perimeter of a store. The tendency for stores to have all the processed "stuff" in the aisles drives that.


I know we have options such as growing our own food, farmer's market's, buying locally, etc.
I agree with all that you said, believe it or not.

My main point was NOT that we can't create or seek out better sources of food.
WHY are we sitting back and allowing the government
to use our tax money to subsidize industrial agriculture which is ruining the quality of our produce?

I am talking about the rise of
Industrial agriculture,
and how we are subsidizing food that is usually not healthy nor good for us.

Why not subsidize the smaller, organic farms and encourage their growth and subsidize their survival?

Thanks for responding.




tj444 -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 1:21:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
My main point was NOT that we can't create or seek out better sources of food.
WHY are we sitting back and allowing the government
to use our tax money to subsidize industrial agriculture which is ruining the quality of our produce?

I am talking about the rise of
Industrial agriculture,
and how we are subsidizing food that is usually not healthy nor good for us.

Why not subsidize the smaller, organic farms and encourage their growth and subsidize their survival?


I heard someone on either one of the news chanels or youtube recently and his comment was "most people dont realize that its the lobbyists that create the laws"..

And it doesnt matter which party you vote for, they both support subsidies, Monsanto and all that shite..

.. just sayin'..

eta- organic farms just dont have the clout to do what Big Ag does in getting govt support..




Marini -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 1:47:38 PM)

quote:

I heard someone on either one of the news chanels or youtube recently and his comment was "most people dont realize that its the lobbyists that create the laws"..

And it doesnt matter which party you vote for, they both support susidies, Monsanto and all that shite..

.. just sayin'..



I totally agree tj.
I laugh at a lot of the fighting and partisan bullshit.
You have many on here that act like total assholes, fighting for their political party, because their political party can do no wrong.
[8|]

I blame both sides of the aisle for most of the problems facing this country.
The only way things will really get better in this country is when people wake up and join forces.
I don't see either political party fighting to take on industrial agriculture.
I appreciate all that Michelle Obama is doing, as far as health awareness and the White House garden.
I wish the current administration, would take on the fight to eliminate subsidizing Big/corporate agriculture and lead the charge to encourage the creation, growth, promotion and sustaining the small sustainable/organic farmers.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 1:56:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
quote:

What is the solution? Buying locally grown? Farmer's Markets? Those are personal choices. Make them yourself. Grow your own food and share. That should easily show the difference between local stuff and the big commercial providers. Raise your own cows. Feed them grass and not corn. Raise your own hogs and/or chickens. Someone is going to have to do that.
And, so we're on the same wavelength, I'm actually looking forward to starting my own garden full of veggies for me to can after harvest so i have access throughout the year. And, I'll be starting some fruit-bearing plants (apples, grapes, blueberries, etc.) for the same purpose. I am going to choose what I plant and might even see if I can save some of my very own seed for the following year. I'm looking into grass-fed local beef and will consider raising my own chickens in the future. I'm not really concerned with pigs because I can live without pork. Bacon and sausage, though, are too damn good to pass on. I'll still rely on others for those products (or the meat that goes into those products). I've often heard that the healthiest way to shop is to stay around the perimeter of a store. The tendency for stores to have all the processed "stuff" in the aisles drives that.

I know we have options such as growing our own food, farmer's market's, buying locally, etc.
I agree with all that you said, believe it or not.
My main point was NOT that we can't create or seek out better sources of food.
WHY are we sitting back and allowing the government
to use our tax money to subsidize industrial agriculture which is ruining the quality of our produce?
I am talking about the rise of
Industrial agriculture,
and how we are subsidizing food that is usually not healthy nor good for us.
Why not subsidize the smaller, organic farms and encourage their growth and subsidize their survival?
Thanks for responding.


Almost guaranteed that the "smaller, organic" farms would end up taking those subsidies to become "larger, organic" farms, and then the laws and everything would be changed so that they become the next Big Ag. IMO, it's better that we don't subsidize either.




Marini -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 2:00:37 PM)

quote:

Almost guaranteed that the "smaller, organic" farms would end up taking those subsidies to become "larger, organic" farms, and then the laws and everything would be changed so that they become the next Big Ag. IMO, it's better that we don't subsidize either.


[sm=river.gif]

No! Joe Public will not allow this to happen!
We will create more farming watch dogs to check on things!

Nooooo!!
I will continue to believe it could work.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 4:17:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
quote:

Almost guaranteed that the "smaller, organic" farms would end up taking those subsidies to become "larger, organic" farms, and then the laws and everything would be changed so that they become the next Big Ag. IMO, it's better that we don't subsidize either.

[sm=river.gif]
No! Joe Public will not allow this to happen!
We will create more farming watch dogs to check on things!


= More government and/or more government regulation

quote:

Nooooo!!
I will continue to believe it could work.


Who would have thought that our farmers would have become Big Ag?




tj444 -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 6:41:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Who would have thought that our farmers would have become Big Ag?


to a certain degree, its simply evolution.. i dont think anyone goes into any business without thinking about growing, expanding, etc..

And in addition to that, advances in farming have allowed those with the land, resources, money, etc to buy advanced machinery to become more profitable, which tends to mean buying more land, planting more crops, more critters, etc to maximize the new machinery.. economies of scale work with farming also, ya know..

Dairies are starting to buy robots that milk the cows.. needless to say they are doing that so they can get more cows, expand, make more money.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCZntJQvcEA They are working on self driving tractors too, I believe..

But the population of the US is approximately 313,914,040.. thats a lot of food that needs to be produced!




TheHeretic -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 7:18:13 PM)

How much are you willing to pay for a tomato, Mari? An orange? A salmon fillet? A loaf of bread, or a bag of rice?

How many people would the planet be able to support, without modern farming techniques?

We are getting more farmer's markets opening up around here, and the difference in quality and taste is dramatic. My sister-in-law tells me that there are jam exchanges, where they can trade the excess blackberry jam they make from the bramble behind their house for a huge variety of homemade jams and jellies, from all over the country.




Marini -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 8:32:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

How much are you willing to pay for a tomato, Mari? An orange? A salmon fillet? A loaf of bread, or a bag of rice?

I fully realize that industrial agriculture is able to produce massive amounts of INEXPENSIVE, often full of corn, corn syrup, etc. "food" by using a variety of methods.

I think many people would be willing to pay a little more, to have better quality sources of food.

How many people would the planet be able to support, without modern farming techniques?

I am not talking about feeding everyone on the planet, I am talking about the quality of food in the United States.
Are we finally just one big country/world now?
Whatever happened to caring about the United States?
Surely we are capable of growing sustaining our own food to feed ourselves?

We are getting more farmer's markets opening up around here, and the difference in quality and taste is dramatic. My sister-in-law tells me that there are jam exchanges, where they can trade the excess blackberry jam they make from the bramble behind their house for a huge variety of homemade jams and jellies, from all over the country.


I am assuming you read my OP, it is about giving more support to small sustainable farmers/organic farms and less to industrial agriculture.


Why can't the government give MORE support to small organic/sustainable farmers and LESS to the industrial agricultural giants?
Many people want a choice of healthier foods to eat, why not give more support to assisting the small farmers?




subrob1967 -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 8:43:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Why can't the government give MORE support to small organic/sustainable farmers and LESS to the industrial agricultural giants?



Because the small organic/sustainable farms can't afford armies of lawyers lobbying on their behalf. I'd guess that more than 80% of the legislation brought up in congress is written by lobby lawyers and not by our elected officials.

We raise chickens, pigs, and have a pretty good sized garden... We sell eggs, chickens, and pigs, and avoid buying a large percentage of our food stuffs at any given grocery store.

Oh yeah, you cannot compare the taste our our home grown to store bought... There is no comparison, especially with the eggs and chicken.




Marini -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 9:07:36 PM)

quote:

Because the small organic/sustainable farms can't afford armies of lawyers lobbying on their behalf. I'd guess that more than 80% of the legislation brought up in congress is written by lobby lawyers and not by our elected officials.

BINGO!!! That's it, will let's get them lawyered up than!!!


We raise chickens, pigs, and have a pretty good sized garden... We sell eggs, chickens, and pigs, and avoid buying a large percentage of our food stuffs at any given grocery store.

Oh yeah, you cannot compare the taste our our home grown to store bought... There is no comparison, especially with the eggs and chicken.


I don't doubt there is any comparison.
I am a vegetarian, but I bet your eggs/chicken are of much better quality
than what the average Joe buys in the store.

Lucky you!!!




Real0ne -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 9:28:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

to a certain degree, its simply evolution..

sure on the surface which is all most people in the world ever look at that is true.

why?

Every one champions democracy, well to have a democracy you immediately have to form a corporation. meaning more than one person, or farmer whatever to form groups.

we have group war today.

corporation live forever. man does not. you own land and die the next person takes over. corps own land and OOOOPSIE never die.

Same with trusts, and the bulk of the suits are are all corporate suits.

In this country you no longer have true suits under the laws of nature.

Everything is corp policy and the total switchover from law to policy was when fdr stacked the courts. another american hero for the fucking "demobcracy" and another kick in the teeth for the small fry.

I am the only one out here knows enough about this to go to the roots, the rest of you just shuffle shit back and forth, but I bet it feels really political.

I have already told you all regulation are under policy, policy is under the police state, it is what the legislatures can push through that they "think" will stand up to judicial muster, and dont shit yourselves, after all the law I have read they can adjust the constitution to mean anything they want such that shooting you dead simply because you are alive is legal and constitutional.

this place needs a complete overhaul and that starts with land titles that date back to the beginning.

quote:

I wish the current administration, would take on the fight to eliminate subsidizing Big/corporate agriculture and lead the charge to encourage the creation, growth, promotion and sustaining the small sustainable/organic farmers.



So as an old fart used to say, wish in one hand get shit in the other.





TheHeretic -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 9:57:36 PM)

Well, I think the best way to support small organic farms is to buy what they produce, and not regulate and tax the farmers out of existence. I don't remember Paul Harvey talking about the farmer spending two hours in the lab, and three more at the computer, submitting test results.

I've seen the documentary previously.




Marini -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 10:01:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well, I think the best way to support small organic farms is to buy what they produce, and not regulate and tax the farmers out of existence. I don't remember Paul Harvey talking about the farmer spending two hours in the lab, and three more at the computer, submitting test results.

I've seen the documentary previously.


Now you have given me an idea.
I think the small farmers should pay the lowest tax rates possible.




Real0ne -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/16/2013 10:11:12 PM)

good idea but the gubocracy is already 10 steps ahead of you

quote:


Report: 15% of Americans on food stamps


A record number of Americans are using this food stamp card to purchase groceries these days.


The number of Americans on food stamps hit a record high in June, and economists don't expect much improvement as long as unemployment remains high.

Those receiving benefits through the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program numbered 46.37 million, the government announced in a report that hit just days ahead of the monthly nonfarm payrolls report, which the Labor Department releases Friday.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/report-15-americans-food-stamps-980690



and who controls?

Eligibility - Food and Nutrition Service - US Department of Agriculture


and of course people on food stamps all drive into the countryside to seek out their farmer to pay top dollar for nutritious healthy non-corp food


quote:

Employment Situation

February 01, 2013
Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 157,000 in January, and the unemployment rate was essentially unchanged at 7.9 percent. Retail trade, construction, health care, and wholesale trade added jobs over the month. More...
(HTML) (PDF)
http://www.bls.gov/cps/


fortunately unemployment is only 7.9%


put it this way, I do not expect you will see any mass exodus into hobby farming anytime soon.


back t the drawing board with you! LOL








tj444 -> RE: Food Fight-documentary/Agricultural policies/Overhauling farm subsidies (2/17/2013 12:00:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Now you have given me an idea.
I think the small farmers should pay the lowest tax rates possible.


sorry to tell ya but that doesnt work either.. have you never heard of gentleman farmers? rich people that have just enough land to get drastically reduced property taxes? and various other subsidies in existance right now for the little bit of "farming" they actually do?
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/oct/15/gentlemen-farmers-reap-what-tennessee-lawmakers/




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