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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 1:31:30 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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I don't see anything in Libertarianism that implies a non-racist philosophy. It seems to me that Libertarianism, of whatever brand, has at its core the notion of minimizing the state's intervention in life. In other words, by its simplest definition, Libertarianism would appear to support a business owner's personal right to private discrimination i.e., I don't serve blacks, I don't hire Jews, etc.

Someone explain to me why Libertarianism is mutually exclusive with racism?? I really don't see that......

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 3:31:44 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

There's evil aliens in that racially affirmative book you're making excuses for. Obviously Jews because they're into social integration rather than rugged individualism of the sort that Lazarus Long and Jubal Harshaw see as the only way to run civilisation.

Bugs are jews? You're kidding right?

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 3:52:26 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Why not? The spine slugs in The Puppet masters would fit quite nicely into a '30s cartoon as well, come to that.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 1/17/2013 3:57:22 PM >

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 4:39:38 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Why not? The spine slugs in The Puppet masters would fit quite nicely into a '30s cartoon as well, come to that.

Because the bugs are depicted as being fecund, caste born, little moe than animate machines and absolutely no communication or internal POV is provided. So drawing such an outrageous conclusion from such contradictory matrerial is ridiculous.

You're basically arguing that any negative portrayal of a nonhuman where that portrayal includes any characteristic ever negatively applied to a human ethnic group means that alien is simply aportrayal of that ethnic group. Which means you could easily say the bugs in Troopers were any group you wanted to say Heinlein was prejudicied about. IOW you're argument is specious.

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 6:04:17 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Alright, a solution.

We round up all the libertarians, put them in a maze the size of Kansas (yes that means relocating all the people in Kansas and the total destruction of the cities in that state.) Then, we place food stashes loaded with diuretics and laxatives in various locations in the maze and have the bathrooms locked unless you deposit a dime, and then the door is only unlocked for exactly 2 seconds.

OR

We declare them all mentally incompetent and a danger to society and place them in institutions, with the same feeding system.

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 6:10:04 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/3/2009
Status: offline 		How 'bout adapting your other stated plans an' shipping dem to da ME an' turning dem all to glass - two birds wit one atomic stone, an' it'll be all over kinder to da people of Kansas?

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 6:29:35 PM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		I'm not sure why any one party would be considered more evil than another.

Canada has at least five major players in the political realm: Bloc Quebecois, Progressive Conservatives, Liberals, New Democrats and the little kid of the bunch, the Green Party. Every one of them has strengths and weaknesses. From up here, I don't see why one would argue the betterment of Republicans, Democrats or Libertarians.

For that matter, I can't see why it's infeasible for anyone to conceive that an individual can't espouse racial views with any major player out there. Could a Nazi blend in with any of these groups? Yes. Does it matter, given that Nazism is unlikely to form anything more hardcore than its grass roots for a very, very long time?

My girl is a Libertarian. I knew of the party before I met her but never delved heavily into it; I'm not American, they didn't shown themselves to be a force worth reviewing. After reading up on it and several discussions with my girl, I can see some strengths and weaknesses they have as a whole. Their evolution from individual freedoms is really not that difficult to understand, given the evolution America is taking towards a police state. I for one would be more comfortable with my southern neighbours run by a delimited government rather than a police regime. I suspect, though, that a Libertarian America would, through its decentralization, lose its unity and splinter. That could be good for Americans as a people in the long run; I can see a few benefits there. However, it would cause a sweeping negative impact on the economy of North America.

In short, it's just politics.

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 6:56:06 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Sarcasm is a lost art here.

As for the people living in Kansas, may I point out that the state is a magnet for tornadoes?

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 6:59:54 PM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Sarcasm is a lost art here.

As for the people living in Kansas, may I point out that the state is a magnet for tornadoes?


Nah, in my case I was just addressing the OP. Although, maybe you should be sardonic instead.

Send the Libertarians up here, so we can kick out the PCs before they try to mirror the police state down there!

(I'll do my part and kidnap my girl. I don't think she'll put up much of a struggle.)


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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 7:17:03 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
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Status: offline 		Libertarianism feels like sensible values on government an' freedom taken to extremes as a political ideology. Some lib values make sense but a true libertarian state would be a harsh place to live indeedy.

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 7:24:01 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

I don't see anything in Libertarianism that implies a non-racist philosophy. It seems to me that Libertarianism, of whatever brand, has at its core the notion of minimizing the state's intervention in life. In other words, by its simplest definition, Libertarianism would appear to support a business owner's personal right to private discrimination i.e., I don't serve blacks, I don't hire Jews, etc.

Someone explain to me why Libertarianism is mutually exclusive with racism?? I really don't see that......

Libertarinism in it's purist form is based on individual liberty and responsibilty. True liberty cannot be attained when encumbered by such things as racism.

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/17/2013 8:52:40 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
As for the people living in Kansas, may I point out that the state is a magnet for tornadoes?

Jif must want us to keep wit da black gold! Ah Kansas, windswept paradise that could generate such great power...

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 1/17/2013 8:56:07 PM >

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RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/18/2013 4:45:29 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

I don't see anything in Libertarianism that implies a non-racist philosophy. It seems to me that Libertarianism, of whatever brand, has at its core the notion of minimizing the state's intervention in life. In other words, by its simplest definition, Libertarianism would appear to support a business owner's personal right to private discrimination i.e., I don't serve blacks, I don't hire Jews, etc.

Someone explain to me why Libertarianism is mutually exclusive with racism?? I really don't see that......

Libertarinism in it's purist form is based on individual liberty and responsibilty. True liberty cannot be attained when encumbered by such things as racism.

Just as socialism can't function under the representational government you have in the 'States, whatever nonsense you spout about teh Kenyan being a socialist or a marxist is a ludicrous misapplication that has nothing to do with the political theories of socialism.
You have absolutely no business trying to apply a hypothetical "purist" form of libertarianism as an excuse for how libertarian values should (but don't) work irl if you're in the habit of casually dismissing anybody who's even slightly to the left of you as an evil liberal socialist who wants to confiscate your paycheque and collectivise everything. That isn't so much a double standard as blatantly taking the piss, I'm afraid.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 1/18/2013 4:46:29 AM >

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing - 1/18/2013 9:28:59 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

I don't see anything in Libertarianism that implies a non-racist philosophy. It seems to me that Libertarianism, of whatever brand, has at its core the notion of minimizing the state's intervention in life. In other words, by its simplest definition, Libertarianism would appear to support a business owner's personal right to private discrimination i.e., I don't serve blacks, I don't hire Jews, etc.

Someone explain to me why Libertarianism is mutually exclusive with racism?? I really don't see that......

Libertarinism in it's purist form is based on individual liberty and responsibilty. True liberty cannot be attained when encumbered by such things as racism.


Actually, I quite disagree. Individual liberty means liberty accruing to an individual. It means people have to be free to do what they want. So if someone doesn't want to hire a Jewish person, what gives the state the right to impose that, unless you are operating also with the competing goal of "maximizing everyone's liberty within constraints". And guess what. The moment you do that, operate under the "maximizing everyone's liberty within constraints", you need the state to step in to dictate certain things, otherwise, some people will get marginalized.

Saying true liberty cannot be attained when encumbered by such things as racism is like saying true liberty cannot be attained when encumbered by such things as poverty. And pray tell, what exactly about "pure" libertarianism espouses the elimination of poverty?? I don't see anything in libertarianism that has a goal the elimination of poverty, even though, obviously, poverty is an encumbrance.

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