RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing

RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 5:31:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The War of the Worlds was published in 1898, for your information this was during the major move by Germany to create a colonial Empire. quote: The appearance of this literature, much of which might be viewed as contemporary propaganda, reflected the increasing feeling of anxiety and insecurity as international tensions between European Imperial powers escalated towards the outbreak of the First World War. Across the decades, the nationality of the invaders tended to vary, according to the most acutely perceived threat at the time. In the 1870s, the Germans were the most common invaders. Towards the end of the nineteenth century, a period of strain on Anglo-French relations, and the signing of a treaty between France and Russia, the French became the more common menace Yes he was referencing British Colonization, and at the same time he was referencing German expansionism. The majority of literature Profs seem to agree with this, so what makes you more intelligent than tenured English Lit professors? I don't see any thing in the quotes of German expansionism but that is your view 11 Brainless Well I for one am willing to explore your theory. I gave a link to a plausible one, are you going to do the same?

jlf1961 -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 5:31:49 PM)
When War of the Worlds was published, the biggest threat to the British Empire was the growing German empire, and there were active attempts by German colonial authorities in Africa to ferment revolt in British colonies. As I asked, what makes you smarter than tenured English Lit Professors who have made a career out of teaching this?

Nosathro -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 6:00:53 PM)
Which English Lit Professor are you talking about...? more than likely the one in your imagination. Further what proof do you have that Germany was attempting to cause a revolt in British Colonies. I have referrence...you just have your mouth.

thishereboi -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 6:01:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Which English Lit Professor are you talking about...? more than likely the one in your imagination. Further what proof do you have that Germany was attempting to cause a revolt in British Colonies. I have referrence...you just have your mouth. You have referrence? Does that mean your going to post a link?

jlf1961 -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 6:22:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Which English Lit Professor are you talking about...? more than likely the one in your imagination. Further what proof do you have that Germany was attempting to cause a revolt in British Colonies. I have referrence...you just have your mouth. Well three of my professors at UNCA for starts, the fact that I am a history major and it came up in lectures about the prelude to WW1 and the German colonial expansionist eras for another. This argument is getting a bit tedious and rates right up there with the one on another thread about Heinlein being anti Semitic and racist. I know the papers I wrote for three lit courses on the motivation of H.G. Wells that was centered on this argument were passing papers and counted for half my grade for the courses, which i passed. That is all I need to know.

Nosathro -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 6:41:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Which English Lit Professor are you talking about...? more than likely the one in your imagination. Further what proof do you have that Germany was attempting to cause a revolt in British Colonies. I have referrence...you just have your mouth. Well three of my professors at UNCA for starts, the fact that I am a history major and it came up in lectures about the prelude to WW1 and the German colonial expansionist eras for another. This argument is getting a bit tedious and rates right up there with the one on another thread about Heinlein being anti Semitic and racist. I know the papers I wrote for three lit courses on the motivation of H.G. Wells that was centered on this argument were passing papers and counted for half my grade for the courses, which i passed. That is all I need to know. No names, well..I am reminded of a dear friend when I was in the army, an Intelligence Officer, he always said "There are a few in the infantry that can even read". I always observed infantry as pointing to something and say "Dat?" If you such a great student, you would at least my professor required referrences, you lacking there.........[8\|]

BamaD -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 7:50:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto LIBERTARIANISM IS NOT A PHILOSOPHY COMPATIBLE WITH RACIAL HATRED. Has anybody ever told Robert Heinlein, Cleon Skusen, David Drake or Andrew MacDonald that, I wonder? quote: His early juveniles were very much ahead of their time both in their explicit rejection of racism and in their inclusion of non-white protagonists—in the context of science fiction before the 1960s, the mere existence of non-white characters was a remarkable novelty, with green occurring more often than brown. Heinlein challenges his readers' possible racial preconceptions by introducing a strong, sympathetic character, only to reveal much later that he or she is of African or other descent; in several cases, the covers of the books show characters as being light-skinned, when in fact the text states, or at least implies, that they are dark-skinned or of African descent. Source If some people ever got their facts straight, I think I would pass out from shock. From the same source: quote: Race was a central theme in some of Heinlein's fiction. The most prominent and controversial example is Farnham's Freehold, which casts a white family into a future in which white people are the slaves of cannibalistic black rulers. In the 1941 novel Sixth Column (also known as The Day After Tomorrow), a white resistance movement in the United States defends itself against an invasion by an Asian fascist state (the "Pan-Asians") using a "super-science" technology that allows ray weapons to be tuned to specific races. The book is sprinkled with racist slurs against Asian people, and blacks and Hispanics are not mentioned at all. And that's without even getting into all of the evil aliens he wrote who are clearly Jews in rubber alien suits. What about all the other sci fi authors who wrote about evil aliens? Were those jews in alien suits? There have been many "alternate" history sci fi that is not considered racist. Heinlein used a current fear of the average person to base stories on, it happens all the time, H.G. Wells wrote about martians, and he was clearly meaning the Germans, was he condemned? Fuck, look up some of Heinlein's non fiction work and see what the man really believed. Hell I had to in a few college lit classes, but then I had some profs that knew that what was fiction was not the same as what the author believed. I guess they were the enlightened ones. By the way, Rico, the hero in Starship troopers was of Latin descent, his first CO was eastern European... Never fucking mind, it is impossible to deal with a closed mind. Having read Farnham's Freehold many years ago my impression was that he was attempting to destroy all the anti-black myths in one book. These attacks on him sound like someone read about him rather than "wasting" time by actually reading his books. Same people no doubt think "The Searchers" was just another western tale.

jlf1961 -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/16/2013 8:06:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Which English Lit Professor are you talking about...? more than likely the one in your imagination. Further what proof do you have that Germany was attempting to cause a revolt in British Colonies. I have referrence...you just have your mouth. Well three of my professors at UNCA for starts, the fact that I am a history major and it came up in lectures about the prelude to WW1 and the German colonial expansionist eras for another. This argument is getting a bit tedious and rates right up there with the one on another thread about Heinlein being anti Semitic and racist. I know the papers I wrote for three lit courses on the motivation of H.G. Wells that was centered on this argument were passing papers and counted for half my grade for the courses, which i passed. That is all I need to know. No names, well..I am reminded of a dear friend when I was in the army, an Intelligence Officer, he always said "There are a few in the infantry that can even read". I always observed infantry as pointing to something and say "Dat?" If you such a great student, you would at least my professor required referrences, you lacking there.........[8\|] There is a flaw with your argument, it would be easy to do an internet search to see who was teaching what courses at the time I attended UNCA. As for your friend's low opinion of the infantry, he is the kind of officer a good trooper would not serve under. By dismissing the infantry, he is dismissing the men who do the bulk of the fighting. You are no better. Besides there is the famous saying "Military Intelligence is an oxymoron." For the record, the Intel my team received prior to dropping onto Grenada was that there were no Cuban troops anywhere near our objective, the fact was that two companies were billeted less than two klicks away. Made for an interesting time for a 12 man team. So, I would not put much value on a guy whose best work is conjecture and guesses. Those guys get the people who do the dirty work killed. But then that clearly does not matter to you in the least.

Nosathro -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 2:59:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Which English Lit Professor are you talking about...? more than likely the one in your imagination. Further what proof do you have that Germany was attempting to cause a revolt in British Colonies. I have referrence...you just have your mouth. Well three of my professors at UNCA for starts, the fact that I am a history major and it came up in lectures about the prelude to WW1 and the German colonial expansionist eras for another. This argument is getting a bit tedious and rates right up there with the one on another thread about Heinlein being anti Semitic and racist. I know the papers I wrote for three lit courses on the motivation of H.G. Wells that was centered on this argument were passing papers and counted for half my grade for the courses, which i passed. That is all I need to know. No names, well..I am reminded of a dear friend when I was in the army, an Intelligence Officer, he always said "There are a few in the infantry that can even read". I always observed infantry as pointing to something and say "Dat?" If you such a great student, you would at least my professor required referrences, you lacking there.........[8\|] There is a flaw with your argument, it would be easy to do an internet search to see who was teaching what courses at the time I attended UNCA. As for your friend's low opinion of the infantry, he is the kind of officer a good trooper would not serve under. By dismissing the infantry, he is dismissing the men who do the bulk of the fighting. You are no better. Besides there is the famous saying "Military Intelligence is an oxymoron." For the record, the Intel my team received prior to dropping onto Grenada was that there were no Cuban troops anywhere near our objective, the fact was that two companies were billeted less than two klicks away. Made for an interesting time for a 12 man team. So, I would not put much value on a guy whose best work is conjecture and guesses. Those guys get the people who do the dirty work killed. But then that clearly does not matter to you in the least. No, my arguement is not flawed, you don't have arguement, you can't prove anything you say. As to your not following an officer, for personal reasons, that a court-martial offense.....

Zonie63 -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 4:32:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto This article was sent to me by my oldest son, who is active in Libertarian politics: The attempted commandeering of the cause of libertarianism It seems a bit incongruous that Nazis would try to infiltrate and commandeer the Libertarian Party. I suppose it's possible, but it just seems rather strange. I don't see how it could really come off. Libertarianism and National Socialism are worlds apart from each other, and it's relatively easy to tell the difference. Why would a Nazi want to be a Libertarian, and why would Libertarians be receptive to Nazism? I know that some try to pass themselves off as "conservative," although conservatism and libertarianism are also somewhat different from each other (even though there may be some overlap).

Moonhead -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 5:09:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 Why would a Nazi want to be a Libertarian, and why would Libertarians be receptive to Nazism? Because they both hate socialists more than they hate each other. Google "Cleon Skuosen" for an example of this at work.

jlf1961 -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 5:44:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Which English Lit Professor are you talking about...? more than likely the one in your imagination. Further what proof do you have that Germany was attempting to cause a revolt in British Colonies. I have referrence...you just have your mouth. Well three of my professors at UNCA for starts, the fact that I am a history major and it came up in lectures about the prelude to WW1 and the German colonial expansionist eras for another. This argument is getting a bit tedious and rates right up there with the one on another thread about Heinlein being anti Semitic and racist. I know the papers I wrote for three lit courses on the motivation of H.G. Wells that was centered on this argument were passing papers and counted for half my grade for the courses, which i passed. That is all I need to know. No names, well..I am reminded of a dear friend when I was in the army, an Intelligence Officer, he always said "There are a few in the infantry that can even read". I always observed infantry as pointing to something and say "Dat?" If you such a great student, you would at least my professor required referrences, you lacking there.........[8\|] There is a flaw with your argument, it would be easy to do an internet search to see who was teaching what courses at the time I attended UNCA. As for your friend's low opinion of the infantry, he is the kind of officer a good trooper would not serve under. By dismissing the infantry, he is dismissing the men who do the bulk of the fighting. You are no better. Besides there is the famous saying "Military Intelligence is an oxymoron." For the record, the Intel my team received prior to dropping onto Grenada was that there were no Cuban troops anywhere near our objective, the fact was that two companies were billeted less than two klicks away. Made for an interesting time for a 12 man team. So, I would not put much value on a guy whose best work is conjecture and guesses. Those guys get the people who do the dirty work killed. But then that clearly does not matter to you in the least. No, my arguement is not flawed, you don't have arguement, you can't prove anything you say. As to your not following an officer, for personal reasons, that a court-martial offense..... Actually, I said , that the type of officer you described as having such a low opinion of combat troops, would not have been followed by the men I served with, and yes, that means a courtmartial, but our defense would be his opinion of the troops he commanded. I am sorry dude, but I do know for a fact that the type of officer you described is not very popular among the combat troops, and would most likely be asked to resign his commission, if not charged with conduct unbecoming. The army has a very high opinion of its combat personnel, and has shown over its history its history to have a high opinion of its fighting men, and has quite often dealt with officers that cared little of the ability of those troops. As for the other, you have called me a liar a number of times, and I no longer want to give you the ability to give you reason to do it again. Suffice it to say we have differing opinions, and mine happens to have more support than yours does, judging by the posts in support of my opinion. So in essence I have proven my point to those that actually matter. Your opinion of me has little influence on my day, and your stated opinion in agreement to the combat forces with which I served, actually proves that I have little to do impress you nor do I care to. There is a term that applies to officers like your friend and men like you, and I am sure you have heard it, the term is fragging. It has happened in various military branches of various countries, and the most recent incident in the American army ended with the acquittal of the accused. full account. So why should I worry about the opinion of a person who has shown a disregard for the types of men I served with? You and your kind are beneath contempt, and no one I served with would ever serve or follow your orders, in fact once the opinions were known, complaints would go up the chain of command and the two of you would not be serving in a line unit, and probably not in the army. SO to make it as simple as possible, go to hell, you are nothing more than a joke, a bad one at that.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 6:10:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto FOR MY PART IN STANDING UP TO WOULD BE TOTALITARIANS AND RACISTS, I HAVE EARNED THE SCORN AND DERISION FROM PEOPLE WHO THINK I HAVE NOW BECOME A PART OF A CONSPIRACY. As I write this, I am currently enduring blistering hatred and criticism from many who have called me friend in the past. I have done everything in my power to educate my fellow citizens, even participating in a public debate where I provided actual evidence of real conspiracies to prove to them how critical thinking works and what the differences are between actual conspiracies and conspiracy theories. But it has been an uphill struggle. And for my trouble I have received death threats and have had my personal information sought out and exposed to the public. IT IS STRANGE THAT SOME NAZIS BELIEVED THAT THEY COULD HIDE BEHIND THE MESSAGE OF LIBERTY WHEN MANY OF THE GREAT MINDS THAT PIONEERED OUR AUSTRIAN SYSTEM OF ECONOMICS WERE JEWISH. Are we a seein' the R. Paul connection fleshed out or is it just coincidental dat many nat-commies see him as their crypto-Hitler?

Moonhead -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 6:58:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 By the way, Rico, the hero in Starship troopers was of Latin descent, his first CO was eastern European... And Michael Moorcock's sword and sorcery novels from the '60s and '70s are full of protagonists who are members of the titled nobility. Does that make Moorcock a royalist?

DomKen -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 7:18:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 By the way, Rico, the hero in Starship troopers was of Latin descent, his first CO was eastern European... And Michael Moorcock's sword and sorcery novels from the '60s and '70s are full of protagonists who are members of the titled nobility. Does that make Moorcock a royalist? No, but it does call into question your thesis that Heinlein was a racist and antisemite.

Moonhead -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 7:20:52 AM)
Not really. Surely you're familiar with the concept of "the spook by the door", which was a very popular form of tokenism when Heinlein was writing Starship Troopers?

Fightdirecto -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 7:25:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Are we a seein' the R. Paul connection fleshed out or is it just coincidental dat many nat-commies see him as their crypto-Hitler? I've been concerned for some time about the "cult of personality" focused on Ron Paul. [image]local://upfiles/42188/2E1762A563FC48CFABDF52FFA339EFDD.jpg[/image]

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 7:29:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Are we a seein' the R. Paul connection fleshed out or is it just coincidental dat many nat-commies see him as their crypto-Hitler? I've been concerned for some time about the "cult of personality" focused on Ron Paul. [image]local://upfiles/42188/2E1762A563FC48CFABDF52FFA339EFDD.jpg[/image] Same here bud. Funny how some folks accept his excuse about his newsletters...

DomKen -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 7:32:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Not really. Surely you're familiar with the concept of "the spook by the door", which was a very popular form of tokenism when Heinlein was writing Starship Troopers? Yes but the protaganist, and POV character, is not a "by the door." Have you actually read Heinlein? I'm still waiting for an example of an evil alien much less one that was somehow a jew.

Moonhead -> RE: Nazis in Libertarian clothing (1/17/2013 11:26:16 AM)
There's evil aliens in that racially affirmative book you're making excuses for. Obviously Jews because they're into social integration rather than rugged individualism of the sort that Lazarus Long and Jubal Harshaw see as the only way to run civilisation.

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