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Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/1/2013 6:00:32 PM   
LizDeluxe


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Joined: 10/2/2011
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I saw this posted on a blog and it is very sobering when you condense it down to an everyman level:

********************************************

US Tax Revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
Federal Budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New Debt: $1,650,000,000,000
National Debt: $14,271,000,000,000
Recent Budget Cuts: $38,500,000,000

Let's now remove 8 trailing zeros from the amounts and pretend that it is a hosuehold budget:

Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on credit cards; $16,500
Outsanding credit card balance: $142,710
Recent cuts to family budget: $385

********************************************

No soapbox. I just thought it was interesting to see these sometimes incomprehensible and mind boggling figures presented in an everyday manner.




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While is there no liberal talk radio? There are at least five conservative talk radio shows available over the air every day in the radio market I live in. Why does the liberal message fail to attract listeners?
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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/1/2013 8:52:12 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Worry not......the adults will fix it.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/1/2013 8:59:56 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Worry not......the adults will fix it.



It wasn't children who caused it.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 1/1/2013 9:02:32 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/1/2013 10:01:37 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 This manufactured crisis was created two years ago by your party....when your party caused another manufactured crisis,threatening to shut the government down ,trying to blackmail your extreme agenda through.Then ended up fucking our historically high and hard earned, AAA credit rating.

J-boner and your boy-wonder Paul Ryan also created the sequester and signed it.....two years ago....

That,........is where the time-line starts.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/1/2013 10:20:08 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Uh, the house passed the bill to keep us from going over the cliff

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/1/2013 10:42:57 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Boehner: No Comment.. No Time Left.. GOP Caves.. GOP 'Crazy But Not Batsh*t Crazy'.. Republicans Confused





< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/1/2013 10:44:39 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/1/2013 10:48:15 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		well whoop dee doo! So they signed a dam bill.. how long for this time? doesnt sound like very long at all, 2 months? Seriously?

"For instance, when and how will lawmakers raise the country's debt ceiling→ From all indications, the coming fight in February could be ugly.
The legislation also creates a new cliff deadline over spending cuts around the same time the debt ceiling will need to be raised."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-bill-stops-many-tax-072700133.html

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 5:48:28 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Hopefully at the next opportunity, Republicans will be voted out and Democrats will re-take the house. Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 6:23:46 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor.



Doesn't exist.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 6:28:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		I am in agreement, there will have to be some reform in entitlements, but we could lop a shitload off the military, and I think that we could also get alot of money in reform of corporate welfare, and going to single payer universal and have the government wholesale buy and resell our medications as most civilized countries do, there are many economies of scale that we have ignored to our detriment as a nation.

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 7:15:06 AM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Hopefully at the next opportunity, Republicans will be voted out and Democrats will re-take the house. Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor.

That can't and won't happen ...these Republicans represent gerrymandered districts,they suffer no risk at all come election time.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 7:58:39 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor.



Doesn't exist.


Doesn`t matter.

Everyone knew who losers would be and who the winners would be.

NO ONE accept the coolaid/"tea" drinkers are upset that taxes on the wealthy went up.

We just went over this and voters decided what they wanted.

Btw,if your taxes went up.....I`m elated.

Adam Smith:  "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/2/2013 7:59:12 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 10:43:26 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor.



Doesn't exist.


Doesn`t matter.

Everyone knew who losers would be and who the winners would be.

NO ONE accept the coolaid/"tea" drinkers are upset that taxes on the wealthy went up.

We just went over this and voters decided what they wanted.

Btw,if your taxes went up.....I`m elated.

Adam Smith:  "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"



You just don't get it!

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 10:51:32 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Adam Smith:  "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"


It's nice to see you quote Adam Smith, but at what proportion to their revenue are they to contribute, and how much more? Is the proportion equal to all people, and then the rich should contribute more?

How much do the top 1% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?
How much do the top 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?
How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 11:10:42 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?


they make below poverty level... not enough to live on.......how much should they pay? Many pay in and get it back at the end of the year. Why are they not making interest on that? The government gets to use their money, free of charge. People in this tax bracket use refund checks as a savings account. Its actually a win win for both them and the government.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 3:19:56 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?

they make below poverty level... not enough to live on.......how much should they pay?


That was part of my point. So, what you are saying, is that "being poor" is their contribution to Adam Smith's "public expense."

quote:

Many pay in and get it back at the end of the year. Why are they not making interest on that? The government gets to use their money, free of charge. People in this tax bracket use refund checks as a savings account. Its actually a win win for both them and the government.


Come on, Tazzy. You're better at math than that. I'm sure you are or have been employed, so you filled out a W-2, where you claimed 'x' number of exemptions. Those exemptions are used to determine your withholding. Raise your claimed exemptions, and government doesn't get to use that money free of charge. Yes, you'll have a smaller refund, or might actually have to pay taxes, but you'd have your money to use as you see fit, provided you put enough aside to "pay the piper." If you are shrewd, you could add one exemption per year until your refund or tax was as small as possible.

Dave Ramsey calls paying more than you could if you made easy changes, a "stupid tax."


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 3:27:47 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Adam Smith:  "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"


It's nice to see you quote Adam Smith, but at what proportion to their revenue are they to contribute, and how much more? Is the proportion equal to all people, and then the rich should contribute more?

How much do the top 1% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?
How much do the top 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?
How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?




Adam Smith has been misread by any 'conservative' that ever read him.

Since he was the big cheese customs man for England during the revolutionary war era, perhaps you can pencil it out for yourself with that information, he didn't play these  bullshit percentage games in order to deflect from realities, he was well aware of the divisions that naturally exist in the classes.

Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand,
Ohhhhh, they send you down to war,
and when you ask them, "How much should we give"
Ohhhhhh, they only answer, "More, more, more."

He was fairly satisfied that the pittance in taxes paid by the poor was offset by the fact that those were the ones called on to go to war, and the rich could buy their way out, or get the plum puddn.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/2/2013 3:41:38 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 3:56:21 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Adam Smith has been misread by any 'conservative' that ever read him.
Since he was the big cheese customs man for England during the revolutionary war era, perhaps you can pencil it out for yourself with that information, he didn't play these  bullshit percentage games in order to deflect from realities, he was well aware of the divisions that naturally exist in the classes.
Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand,
Ohhhhh, they send you down to war,
and when you ask them, "How much should we give"
Ohhhhhh, they only answer, "More, more, more."
He was fairly satisfied that the pittance in taxes paid by the poor was offset by the fact that those were the ones called on to go to war, and the rich could buy their way out, or get the plum puddn.


Not surprisingly, you didn't answer any of my questions. And, if your last sentence is accurate, how's that correlate today? "The Poor" aren't necessarily the ones sent into war. Since the draft was ended, they couldn't be forced to go, either.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 4:56:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Come on, Tazzy. You're better at math than that. I'm sure you are or have been employed, so you filled out a W-2, where you claimed 'x' number of exemptions. Those exemptions are used to determine your withholding. Raise your claimed exemptions, and government doesn't get to use that money free of charge. Yes, you'll have a smaller refund, or might actually have to pay taxes, but you'd have your money to use as you see fit, provided you put enough aside to "pay the piper." If you are shrewd, you could add one exemption per year until your refund or tax was as small as possible.


Come on.... its far better to get one big check then to get it spread out over the 12 months. Again, a win win for the tax payer and the government. Saying the 50% dont pay in is extremely misleading.

quote:

Dave Ramsey calls paying more than you could if you made easy changes, a "stupid tax."


From a middle class standpoint, he may be right.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies - 1/2/2013 5:24:32 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Come on, Tazzy. You're better at math than that. I'm sure you are or have been employed, so you filled out a W-2, where you claimed 'x' number of exemptions. Those exemptions are used to determine your withholding. Raise your claimed exemptions, and government doesn't get to use that money free of charge. Yes, you'll have a smaller refund, or might actually have to pay taxes, but you'd have your money to use as you see fit, provided you put enough aside to "pay the piper." If you are shrewd, you could add one exemption per year until your refund or tax was as small as possible.

Come on.... its far better to get one big check then to get it spread out over the 12 months. Again, a win win for the tax payer and the government. Saying the 50% dont pay in is extremely misleading.


Nowhere in this thread did I say any of that, so I'm not sure who mislead you.

quote:

quote:

Dave Ramsey calls paying more than you could if you made easy changes, a "stupid tax."

From a middle class standpoint, he may be right.


He usually is. Just wish I could follow his recommendations. But, it's a new year and a new attempt at it.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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