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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 10:50:41 AM   
kiwisub12


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

One thing I forgot to ask: Does pain make you incredibly tired? Or maybe it's some combination of pain and meds?



When i had migraines, i would get progressively tired as the days went by. I think that the stress of enduring the pain made me tired.

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 11:43:07 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
One thing I forgot to ask: Does pain make you incredibly tired? Or maybe it's some combination of pain and meds?

That is one answer to my question three. So what more relevant data are you holding back?


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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 11:54:55 AM   
tj444


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Pain is a hard one to deal with.. For many years I was in so much back pain that I was in bed for 2 or 3 weeks at a time.. Conventional Doctors did nothing other than send me for physical therapy, which didnt help.. I finally could not take anymore and went to a chiropractor.. he finally helped me.. he showed me an xray of my spine and the quite visible curve to it.. He started treating me and for the first time in years, my pain was helped, at least to being more manageable and tollerable.. Physically, the first treatment for me really felt like the clouds in the sky opening and letting the sunshine in.. he was able to releave the pressure & pain and only then did i realize how much severe pain i had been in.. That said, I can not cure my curved spine, it will always be a problem but now at least I know how to deal with it..

Then one day years later,.. my back pain started to get worse, the pain started climbing up and up my back all the way to my neck and lower head.. it was so bad that i could not sleep in bed, I could not sit down for more than 2 minutes.. standing all the time was least painful.. I kept going to my chiropractor but it wasnt helping me this time..

So i finally decided to go to a chinese accupuncturist for the pain.. he told me at the first visit that my problem was my stomach.. I thought he was crazy but decided to google and turns out he was actually right.. what I was eating, my diet was creating inflamation in my stomach and it manifested itself as severe back pain.. I read other peoples stories about the very same thing i was going thru.. I immediately changed my diet and stopped eating all processed carbs & eating healthy the way we are supposed to.. I started feeling better in the first week, by the end of the second week my back pain was gone (other than my normal pain from my curved spine)..

Imo, sometimes its the conventional doctors that are quacks.. why didnt they do an xray of my back and find the reason for my pain? they never told me about the curve to my back.. why couldnt they help me at all? That doesnt mean I dont go to conventional doctors today, I just do my own reseach also.. I find out about any drugs they prescribe, i read up on their explanations for what is wrong, research the ways to deal with it (both conventional and non-conventional), etc..

Also, sometimes a persons source of pain is not what you think it is, I had back pain and thought it was my (curved) back getting worse when it was actually my diet.. I never would have related the two on my own.. Until you know the actual source or cause of the pain, you likely will not be able to find the remedy for it..

Posters have already brought up chiropractors & accupuncturists.. if you try that, try to find those that have experience dealing with arthritic neck pain.. I have used various chiropractors, not all treat the problem the same way or method.. so some I like their treatment for my back, some I didnt (so never went to them again).. some chiropractors used TENS units on me too, I liked that (I could adjust the amount/level I got).. I would like to buy a TENS unit for myself at home too.. to me it would be worth the investment.. I take ibuprofen for pain when i do have it, but i dont like it since i know taking too much can cause kidney damage, etc.. for me, meds arent really a solution.. heat packs, hot baths, things like that i do sometimes too..

I hope you can find ways to feel better..

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 1:57:43 PM   
Winterapple


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Fatigue is a symptom of rheumatoid arthritis.
Opiates are going to make you sleepy and
just coping with the stress and strain of
pain is physically draining.

The thing with over the counter meds
other than Tylenol is after awhile they
are tough on your stomach. Tylenol has
the danger of liver damage especially if
you drink regularly like once or twice a
week.

There are pain management clinics and
you could try acupuncture. Warm
soaking baths are a good thing.
Physical therapy is something you have
to suck up and take with the hope
you will see positive results from it.
It's hard when you're in pain to do it
but it does usually help.
Try not to sit in one place or do one
repetitive action for to long without
taking a break, walking around, etc.

Sorry you're suffering. Pain can take
a mental toll as well as physical.
Be patient and don't lose hope.
I wish you all the best.

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 2:18:37 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

One thing I forgot to ask: Does pain make you incredibly tired? Or maybe it's some combination of pain and meds?



When i had migraines, i would get progressively tired as the days went by. I think that the stress of enduring the pain made me tired.


Yup. The body has an endocrine/hormonal reaction to pain. Eventually, it takes it's toll.


< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 1/1/2013 2:19:15 PM >


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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 3:32:31 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

No. I didn't have anything about sarcasm in my New Year's resolutions. Why do you ask?

Thank heaven.

Your sarcasm often brings the best laugh of the day, and they do say laughter is the best medicine.

Of course, intravenous Demerol (which I had when I broke my arm in '92) runs a pretty close second.

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 5:26:16 PM   
NuevaVida


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So sorry you are dealing with chronic pain. Yes, in the past when I've had chronic pain, the pain itself exhausted me over time, and even depressed me. That, combined with the medications, made me physically tired and even irritable.

I agree with everyone who suggested a pain management doctor, and YES to staying on top of your PT - very important.

I also rely highly on a very good chiropractor and on acupuncture. Hard to find really good ones but they are awesome when you do.

Sending healing thoughts your way...

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 6:02:51 PM   
kdsub


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Two total hip replacements... One great toe bone and joint prosthesis…rotator cuff surgery…L3 through L5 Lumbar fusion surgery… I almost always set off store alarms when I enter and leave…lol.

Advise given to me by my surgeons …any surgery of the type I have had will only aid in reducing pain, if successful at all. The repaired area will contain scare tissue that is weaker then even the pre surgery tissues no matter how bad and deteriorated.

So I was told the way to decide when to get surgery is when the pain is persistent and unrelenting and affects your sleep. But never expect to carry on where you left off after surgery you will only injure yourself again and easier than before.

So any surgery of the types I have been talking about will permanitly change your life…be ready for that and good luck.

PS old doc Davis will tell you they will want to fuse those disks in your neck and believe it or not they will enter from the front of your neck not the back.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/1/2013 6:03:29 PM >


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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 7:03:44 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

So what more relevant data are you holding back?

Well, there's my being Klingon, of course. That may mean some anatomical differences.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 7:09:25 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

Warmest thanks again to everyone!

Today was pretty decent. Some "pins and needles" stuff but not much of the stabbing, shooting "driving needle" pain.

I found, though, that even when I wasn't in pain, I still felt oddly consumed by it, always fearing that one false move--literally--could set my shoulder ablaze again. Has anyone else encountered that mindset/worry? Does it, please God, fade over time?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/1/2013 8:33:25 PM   
TheHeretic


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Yeah, DC. That awareness will fade.

What you are describing though, sounds like something the docs ticked off looking at my shoulder issue, called Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Is that something they've checked?

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/2/2013 1:45:39 PM   
kalikshama


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Can Buddhist practice liberate us from the prison of physical pain? How can meditation help when medicine falls short? Jon Kabat-Zinn, Ph.D., professor emeritus of medicine at the University of Massachusetts medical School, speaks to these questions as a long-time practitioner of Buddhist meditation and hatha yoga, and as a pioneer in the use of mindfulness to treat chronic pain and illness. More than 13,000 people have visited the world-renowned Stress Reduction Clinic that Kabat-Zinn established in 1979 at the UMass medical Center, and the eight-week program- described in Kabat-Zinn’s bestseller “Full Catastrophe Living”- is now also offered at some two hundred medical facilities worldwide.

Tricycle editor-at-large Joan Duncan Oliver spoke with Kabat-Zinn in September 2002.

Let's start with a basic question: What is pain?

Physical pain is the response of the body and the nervous system to a huge range of stimuli that are perceived as noxious, damaging, or dangerous. There are really three dimensions to pain: the physical or sensory component; the emotional, or affective component, how we feel about the sensation; and the cognitive component, the meaning we attribute to our pain.

Let's say you've got a pain in your back. You can't lift your children; getting in and out of the car is difficult; you can't sit in meditation. Maybe you can't even work. That's the physical component. But you're having to give up a lot, and you're going to have feelings about that—anger, probably—and you're susceptible to depression. That's the emotional response. And then you have thoughts about the pain—questions about what caused it, negative stories about what's going to happen. Those expectations, projections, and fears compound the stress of the pain, eroding the quality of your life.

There is a way to work with all this, based on Buddhist meditative practices, which can liberate you, to a very large extent, from the experience of pain. Whether or not you can reduce the level of sensory pain, the affective and cognitive contributions to the pain— which make it much worse—usually) can be lessened. And then, very often, the sensory component of the pain changes as well.

You mean that once you've changed your relationship to the pain, the physical discomfort may decrease?

That's the key point: You change your relationship to the pain by opening up to it and paying attention to it. You "put our the welcome mar.' Not because you're masochistic, but because the pain is there. So you need to understand the nature of the experience and the possibilities for, as the doctors might put it, learning to live with it," or, as the Buddhists might put it, "liberation from the suffering." If you distinguish between pain and suffering, change is possible. As the saying goes, "Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional."

There have been studies looking at how the mind processes acute pain at the sensory level. Subjects are randomized between two groups, then given the cold pressor test, where a tourniquet is placed around your bicep, then you stick your arm into ice water. There's no more blood flow, so your arm gets very painful very fast. They measure how long you can keep your arm in the water as a function of whether you are given an attentional strategy, such as paying attention to the sensations and really moving into them and being with them as nonjudgmentally as you can—a mindfulness strategy, in other words—or a distraction strategy, where you just try to think about other things and tune out the pain. What they found was that in the early minutes of having your arm in the ice water, distraction works better than mindfulness: You're less aware of the discomfort because you're telling yourself a story, or remembering something, or having a fantasy. But after the arm is in the cold water for a while, mindfulness becomes much more powerful than distraction for tolerating the pain. While distraction alone, once it breaks down and doesn’t work, you’ve got nothing.

The Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction program uses the body scan as well as sitting meditation to manage pain. Can you explain how the body scan works?

The Body Scan is a variation on a traditional Burmese practice- called sweeping, from the school of U Ba Khin. that S. N. Goenka teaches in his ten-day Vipassana retreats. The traditional method involves tuning in to sensation in a narrow horizontal band that is slowly brought down through the entire body as if you were giving yourself a CAT scan. This is analogous to the way certain metals such as zinc are purified in a circular zone furnace. I thought it would be hard for people in chronic pain to sir for forty-five minutes, so I modified the practice. It is done Iying down starting at the toes and moving up through different regions of the body.

This practice is a way of getting out of the head and developing intimacy with the body. The challenge is, can you feel the toes of your left foot without wiggling them. You tune in to the toes, then gradually move your attention to the bottom of the foot and the heel, and feel the contact with the floor. Then you move to the ankle and slowly up the leg to the pelvis. Then you go to the toes of the right foot and move up the right leg. Very slowly you move up the torso, through the lower back and abdomen, then the upper back and chest, and the shoulders. Then you go to the fingers on both hands and move up the arms to the shoulders. Then you move through the neck and throat, the face and the back of the head, and then right on up through the top of the head.

And all the while, you’re in contact with the breath. I tend to have people feel the breath moving in and out of the body region they're attending to, so that there's a sort of dual awareness. As you move up the body, you're learning how to focus on a particular region, then let go of it and move on. It's like cultivating concentration and mindfulness simultaneously, because there is a continual flow. You're not staying with one object of attention.

Read more: http://www.bemindful.org/kabatzinnart.htm

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/2/2013 1:50:06 PM   
kalikshama


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My mom has this and as a yoga teacher I recommend it: Guided Body Scan and Guided Yoga 1 (Mindfulness Meditation Practice Tapes, Tape 1) [Audio Cassette]

Unfortunately, I only see it in cassette version.

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/2/2013 8:13:13 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

I honestly started this thread in a sincere search for answers, and, as I hope I've made clear, the wisdom and counsel I've received has been a tremendous and deeply appreciated gift. Thanks to you all!

And now, I hope you'll bear with me on a less noble plane, as I gripe about my version of Job's comforters.

One friend, a bright woman with a Ph.D., on hearing that I'd had a "rugged" day due to pain and work BS: "Don't the pills help?"
Tempting Reply: "Like magic. I just thought it would be interesting to see what happened without them."
Actual Reply: "Well.... I don't know how much worse I'd be without them."

Another friend, a self-absorbed artist, seems to be focused on the bone spurs mentioned in the first x-ray. A few days ago, he was wondering if I should be taking calcium supplements. Today, after the inevitable "Do the pills work?" he asked, "Has your chiropractor talked about surgery for the bone spurs?"
Tempting Reply: You know I love you hon, but you're not a doctor and shouldn't be playing one via text messages."
Actual Reply: "I haven't seen a chiropractor (yet?), and I'm in no rush to have a scalpel slicing near my spine.

End of whine. Thanks for listening!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: The Problem of (non-BDSM) Pain - 1/3/2013 2:31:14 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Ok, I'm answering without reading the other responses, so sorry if I repeat anything others suggested.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I'm not asking folks to diagnose or cure me over the Internet, but I'd welcome battle stories and tips from others who've dealt with chronic pain. Some things I've been wondering about:

-- How do you get through to a doc who seems more concerned about your becoming an opiate addict than your spending the rest of your life in agony?  You change doctors and find one who specializes in pain management. 

-- How long do you try a new medication before determining whether it works or not? Really depends on the medication.  Things like Lyrica or Cymbalta you need to give about a month to see results.  Anti-inflammatories you should notice within a day of taking the recommended dose (if not within an hour or so).

-- How do you motivate yourself to do PT exercises (which you know will help in the long term) when you hurt like hell in the short term? You take it easy and do as much as you can without screaming in pain.  Then hope for the best.

-- How do you pace yourself during the day? Learning that you have to stop as soon as the pain starts is the most difficult thing, but you have to force yourself to do it.  If you don't the pain you will feel from forcing yourself onward will be worse.

-- If the prescribed meds aren't up to the job, do you add any OTC remedies? Talk to your (new, understanding) doctor about this.  Some OTC meds can seriously interfere with the prescribed ones.  For example, if the doctor is prescribing Celebrex, you don't want to take Advil.

-- How do you handle yourself when a surge of pain starts at work or in a social setting? (Last night, I nearly started sobbing at a dinner party.) You can excuse yourself and go to the rest room until the surge subsides.  Personally, I find that stepping outside for a moment and getting fresh air is helpful.

-- What questions should I be asking that I'm not?  Well, you haven't mentioned what questions you have asked, so I really can't suggest much.  You know what they are diagnosing you, so aside from getting a second opinion, go on line and read up on treatments for the problem.

Many thanks and warmest wishes to us all for a pain-free 2013!



My pain levels never go below a 5 on any given day.  The only time I was pain free since December of 2008 was after recent surgery for the kidney stones over the summer when I was pumped full of Dilaudid and Fentynal.  It was nice being pain free, but I wouldn't want to feel that out of it on a daily basis.  A couple times a month might be nice, lol.

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